New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:27 pm

But I can't stand the lyrical style Trey's adopted in 3.0.

Why is it so different? Somehow this is worse than Let's Go Out to Dinner and see a Movie? I think we elevate the old lyrics a bit to much when it's just as nonsensical and metaphysical as it always was.

I do like:
Friends (I think it's great! Unique and unassuming and fun ... )


Okay, you've definitely lost me. No amount of fun makes this enjoyable to listen to...it's not even good to sing along with in cheesy rocker style. Every time I see it on a setlist, I hope it's actually a Zeppelin cover.

Blaze On's a'ight (is the Hands on Hardbody lady a cowriter on this?)

I think it's just Trey and Tom on that.

Miss You - seems like this one "works" -- not my cup of tea, but it's fair to say sometimes this style works.

I'm not sure how one can complain on the writing for Miss You...it's hit that emotional string for me a few times. It's not going to knock you over with creativity but it gets the point across. And, man, Trey's really tearing into this on that solo.

Waking Up Dead's really pretty great.

I just don't know what to do with this song. I guess I like singing along but I don't know what else there. They even did the live version over the weekend and I still couldn't get that into it.

Also, I think we got our answer with Wanted it This Way being places squarely in that early-2nd-set slow as a fine jam engine...sounds good at its debut...I was pretty pumped about that sweet swgue out of Twist.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby goldenroad » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:07 pm

More, Petrichor and Always (let's just use that shorthand) sounded great live. More is a great set closer. Such energy. Can't wait for Vegas!
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:58 pm

^^Stevo, I love ya man, but there's no explaining taste, you know?

I will just say, to your entire post:

Dinner & A Movie lyrics = gold
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:53 pm

... I should have said, personal taste. It's just my own preference, I mean. I'm not saying you don't know taste! Your sense of taste seems opposite to mine sometimes, and that's fine.

I really don't like being so negative honestly! I just had like, an allergic reaction to my first listen. I hope I can sort of think my way thru my Major Issues with this album and come to terms with it soon. That's how it normally goes ... but I normally don't start off disliking it so much.

I've only disliked a Phish album on the whole right out of the gate once before, and that was Billy Breathes 20 yrs ago. I'm sorta okay w/that album now, mainly because after 20 years you finally stop expecting a plastic object to change.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:51 pm

Always (let's just use that shorthand)

I found myself calling it "Wanted." IAWITW is pretty awkward too. I see some folks refer to No Men's as NMINML and it just seems unneccessary.

^^Stevo, I love ya man, but there's no explaining taste, you know?

I hear ya there, sir. But it's fun to discuss it.

... I should have said, personal taste. It's just my own preference, I mean. I'm not saying you don't know taste!

LOL. No biggie. I'd imagine our tastes are much closer than it seems since we still probably agree on a majority of Phish tunes. But I do prefer to not compare new Phish to old Phish...it's rarely a fun thing to do. Like you said, people change.

I've only disliked a Phish album on the whole right out of the gate once before

For me it was Undermind and Joy. Undermind I'm still not big on but I certainly warmed up to Joy, especially as I heard live versions of those songs and started to appreciate them a little bit.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:18 am

I'm getting comfortable with the album, or maybe comfortabler. It's as simple as - I like some of it, and other things about it I don't like. That's how I feel about most of their albums.

But dammit someone sit the dude down and have the trite cheesey cliche chat that has seemingly not happened.

It's not that I want to go back to fairy tales and goofy silly shit. Rift wasn't like that. But it was still smart and cool and kind of edgy and definitely artful.

I just want intellectually satisfying, unique artful stuff that's not the first, most obvious idea that came to your mind. I sorta think that's where Trey's writing approach has been ever since the Hoist sessions; abandoning meticulous crafting in favor of faster results, and we get these impulsey songs.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:47 pm

But dammit someone sit the dude down and have the trite cheesey cliche chat that has seemingly not happened

At times I do wonder why Trey sings about the rain so much. He must like the rain. And light. He likes light too. Even named a song after it.

But, in most cases, I don't have a clue what's being written about so I don't know if I mind the change. The lyrics did seem to flow better back in the day, though. Don't have a clue on a lot of old songs as well. What the hell is Stash about? Who knows!?
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:10 pm

Whether we can discern meaning isn't what quantifies good lyrics. At least not to me. It's whether they're well crafted and interesting, and utilize the vernacular.

I mean, read any stanza of Forbin's or Esther or Lizards, and then read a stanza of Tide Turns. It's like comparing Shakespeare to Sesame Street. I've never liked cliches or trite themes, and this new stuff he's been writing is loaded with it. Just feels unimaginitive.

I just gotta get past it. After a while, you realize you're hating the whole of the painting because of one ugly element of it. I'm liking them as I tune in to fall tour ... really spices up the shows to have brand new stuff IMO.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby PardonMe Doug » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:44 pm

hosemasterflex wrote:
I mean, read any stanza of Forbin's or Esther or Lizards, and then read a stanza of Tide Turns. It's like comparing Shakespeare to Sesame Street.


:lol: :clap:

The first time I listened to this album I seriously thought to myself: "Kevin is not going to like some of these lyrics"
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:44 am

^YESSS!!! lol!

To be fair though, my analogy is off, and I actually think it isn't fair to Sesame Street.

Because classic Sesame Street was badass and artful (back when they first started touring nationally, before the arena days).
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:47 pm

I mean, read any stanza of Forbin's or Esther or Lizards, and then read a stanza of Tide Turns.

It's definitely a cliche since it's just a song of positivity and about getting through tough times...I think Trey just likes writing "normal songs" here and there. I agree it's not one of my favorites but there are songs where I feel the lyrics are clever. Breath & Burning, Blaze On, Miss You, and More are all tunes where I like the lyrics. Hit and miss, I'd agree.

Because classic Sesame Street was badass and artful (back when they first started touring nationally, before the arena days).

Man, once Elmo took over the band and changed the direction a bit, I was out.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:50 pm

exZACKLY! I was okay with Tellie. Elmo was a deal breaker.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby Harpua » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:36 pm

I am not advocating drug use, but I gave up on SS after Cookie Monster got clean. You can sell "Cookies are a Sometimes Food" as a mature, introspective tune for a maturing fan base all you want, but it just feels lazy and cliché to me.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:58 am

^yeah that's just bullshit

I think I'm starting to really like Petrichor. Listening to live versions has been cool.

Hard to hate on this stuff in context of fall tour!

Really it's coming down to about three tracks I'm just not into. On that ratio, it's no worse than Fuego. There are two tracks on Fuego that I perpetually glare at in my mind's eye.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby Katiemay » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:02 am

I hear you, Kevin. I don't know if cringe is a strong enough word for how I feel when I listen to a song like Tide Turns. That song straight up sucks. I can't believe I'm saying that, but it's like the epitome of where these cheesy Trey songs have been leading. I decided Trey 's lyrical skills have regressed to those of a 14 year old girl, at least ballad-wise. And so much repeating of a line or verse over and over in many new songs. It can be effective sometimes, but it's not working for me most if the time.

Sorry, I don't feel as harshly towards the album overall as that makes me sound. I really like Friends. It is the most non-Phish sounding Phish tune ever. Not that I'm looking for my Phish songs to not sound like them, but I enjoy its different sound and find it fun and funny. I still need to listen further and acclimate. My initial impressions of Phish albums are not usually in line with my long term feelings.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:44 pm

I am not advocating drug use, but I gave up on SS after Cookie Monster got clean. You can sell "Cookies are a Sometimes Food" as a mature,

Agreed. You either go all-in on cookies or you don't go at all.

I think I'm starting to really like Petrichor. Listening to live versions has been cool.

I'm surprised it sounds so well live and the ending sounds a lot better when they jam it out a bit. Cool ending too. I loved when they opened Fall Tour with it to a huge ovation.

I don't know if cringe is a strong enough word for how I feel when I listen to a song like Tide Turns. That song straight up sucks.

I'm still down on the song but I like how they added an Al-Green-ish R&B beat to it, along with the horns. It's the same changes that made it better in mind. But, yeah, it's still low on the list. Friends still just does nothing for me and it's possible the band agrees since they didn't play it at all this Fall Tour, despite that kinda being the "new album tour."

In terms of live versions, Waking Up Dead is still just kind a "meh" to me and jams have done little while More sure looks like it'll be in the "rockin' set closer" role, which works for me...it's fun to just yell out the lyrics in rocker fashion to that one. Home is a lil too slow for live for me and more needs to be done with the wacky ending. Miss You works the same for me live and I love Trey ripping solos on that one. I Always Wanted it This Way is everything I kinda hoped it'd be as an explorative second-set jam.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:51 am

I hope I never yell out the lyrics to More, that's how strongly I feel the dislike. That one, & Tide Turns especially.

I'm totally all over Friends; you scratch my head, Steve! :problem:

I feel badly, I got an email from Dry Goods inviting my review of Big Boat, and I kinda slammed it. But as soon as I feel bad about it, I'm like: fuck that, I was polite.

I've long held a mostly positive attitude toward the bands I love, and have apologized and excused them for changing in ways I don't particularly care for. But this time, it's personal, lol. Maybe it's Ezrin, I dunno. I used to love blaming producers back when I had no idea what they do. But the dude suggested cutting Let's Go & Mercury.

Also: Music From The Elder, lol. Actually I love that album, but it's a certified mess.

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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:45 pm

I hope I never yell out the lyrics to More, that's how strongly I feel the dislike.

VIBRATING WITH LOVE AND LIGHT!!!...

I'm totally all over Friends; you scratch my head, Steve

It was a phase. We understand.

Maybe it's Ezrin, I dunno. I used to love blaming producers back when I had no idea what they do.

Yeah, I'm kinda with that mindset of not bashing guys since I'm not sure what they do. All I know is I've very much liked Fuego and Big Boat so he's doing something right. And who needs a studio Mercury? I just fire up the latest Dick's version if I need it.

Actually I love that album, but it's a certified mess.

Bashes Phish and then pumps up one of the worst bands ever. I give up. :mrgreen:

Also, saw the announcement for Trey Tour and my man's actually giving Michigan a little sugar in Royal Oak! Phish never seems to come here but Trey's always been loyal. Good ole Trey. Wasn't big on Paper Wheels but I like that Trey guy quite a bit. Should be fun.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby Harpua » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:43 pm

El Bastarde wrote:I hope I never yell out the lyrics to More, that's how strongly I feel the dislike.

VIBRATING WITH LOVE AND LIGHT!!!...



That song, man. :roll:

I don't like it, but I can live with the hippie dippie stuff. When I first heard that "tilt to the left; lean to the right" nonsense, it literally made me angry.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby goldenroad » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:50 pm

I love yelling out the lyrics to More! It's no worse, lyrically, than Suzy or Character Zero in terms of songs that the crowd should be signing along with. The louder the crowd is, the more the band gets into it and the better it all is for everyone.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:24 pm

I first heard that "tilt to the left; lean to the right" nonsense, it literally made me angry.

Yet I'm sure we're all perfectly fine with "Your hands and feet and mangos but you'll be a genius anyway." Let's face it...there's a lot of wacky lyrics from this band. "Leaning to the right" is pretty harmless to me by comparison.

I love yelling out the lyrics to More!

I'm the same. It seems to fit perfectly in its "rockin set closer" role. Cheesy lyrics you can yell out loud and pump a fist to and an energetic jam for it. There are times when Phish just likes to do a "good ole rock tune" so I think that's what songs like More are about.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby Harpua » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:41 pm

El Bastarde wrote:I first heard that "tilt to the left; lean to the right" nonsense, it literally made me angry.

Yet I'm sure we're all perfectly fine with "Your hands and feet and mangos but you'll be a genius anyway." Let's face it...there's a lot of wacky lyrics from this band. "Leaning to the right" is pretty harmless to me by comparison.


Are you suggesting that Mango Song is anything less than brilliant? !

What angered me was a vision of a field of tilting and leaning phans during that part.
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby Phinst » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:40 am

^


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What makes songs like Mango and Dinner and a Movie,etc..brilliant is who the hell else would think of such lyrics.. :P While I enjoy this album and the songs translate really well live, Imo..The lyrics just aren't as original as before
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would be the Finest in the Nation....

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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby hosemasterflex » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:11 am

^Exactly. I'll take Mango Song's lyrics over this trend of trite & true bullshittyness. Sorry Phish, love you!
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Re: New album! Big Boat! Oct. 7

Postby El Bastarde » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:29 pm

Bit of an unfair standard, really. We hate when they write profound stuff since it's trite but love when they write jibberish that means nothing? I give up.
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