The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby jerrylives » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:03 am

better than the "it" documentary
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Postby relaxation3 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:34 am

I had to move to pre-hiatus after this one.. Spending good money on a DVD that could have been better by releasing something say from the earlier years was the straw the broke the camels back. (Or whatever that saying is)

Brad- I'm in the same boat with too much Post-Hiatus...Back to the good old days.

On a good note, watching Trey sit in w/ MMW was probably the best Trey playing I've seen in a long time. Can't wait for the purity to come back in full effect.
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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby relaxation3 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:35 am


better than the "it" documentary


To each their own, but I have to strongly disagree.
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Postby gregradiohead » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:05 pm

Unstickied because posting has calmed down.
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Postby lifeandhowtoliveit » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:20 pm

^5000 posts..congrats!
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Postby gregradiohead » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:39 pm

BUMP
I've been watching this again over the past day or so. The 46 Days -> Possum is better than I remembered, but that Suzy jam is still crap. Anybody else think the Maze intro was rushed??
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Postby goldenroad » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:33 pm

Call me crazy, but I love the Suzy jam...definately the most memorable part of the show anyway. I mean, I always love Possum, but I don't always love Suzy, so when one comes along as sweet as this, I love it.
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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby ghost_2000 » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:35 pm


BUMP
I've been watching this again over the past day or so. The 46 Days -> Possum is better than I remembered, but that Suzy jam is still crap. Anybody else think the Maze intro was rushed??


I LOVED the "46 Days -> Possum." That segue, I think, got the biggest ovation from the crowd in the theatre I was at.

I didn't care for the "Suzy" jam, either. Meh.
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Postby lifeandhowtoliveit » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:47 pm

It's amazing that I've seen the CD version of this at my local record store..a very rare thing even in the rest of the UK remember.

It's 15 bucks sterling..worth a purchase?
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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby gregradiohead » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:00 am

I'd go for the DVD but not the CDs. I don't think it's even an above average show. It has an interesting setlist and two great jams with tasty segues (Moma Dance -> Free and 46 Days -> Possum), but little else of audio appeal. The DVD is pretty cool though.
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Postby sirtubepiper » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:47 am

15 bucks, sure it's worth it, although not over most of the Live Phish series
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Postby nightowl49 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:10 pm

The summer of '04 was HOT. I can't understand why so many people bash this tour.

Sure, the brooklyn dvd wasn't the best release, but how many first shows of the tour are top notch? It was released for historical purposes.
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Postby sirtubepiper » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:34 am



Sure, the brooklyn dvd wasn't the best release, but how many first shows of the tour are top notch? It was released for historical purposes.


6/17/04 is a great tour-opener... many great tours don't have great tour openers. Then again there's 7/15/98, 6/30/98, 6/30/99, and 9/8/00
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Postby gregradiohead » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:57 am

This gives me an idea for another thread...
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Postby nightowl49 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:00 am




Sure, the brooklyn dvd wasn't the best release, but how many first shows of the tour are top notch? It was released for historical purposes.


6/17/04 is a great tour-opener... many great tours don't have great tour openers. Then again there's 7/15/98, 6/30/98, 6/30/99, and 9/8/00


Sure it was a good show, but I will admit set 2 sounds a little "forced".
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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby hosemasterflex » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:59 pm

I just watched a bit of set I ... I REALLY enjoyed it. I'm one of those people who has trouble stomaching the dramatic changes in Phish during their last years ... changes in writing, changes in performance style, and changes in performance quality. But Brooklyn, if you can get past those things that are so easy to be biased about, is a really great DVD.

Maze is what made me want to comment on it again ... at first I had a really hard time just getting over the fact that Trey is quite obviously trying to recall the guitar riff for a LONG time during Maze. But I think not only does he deliver the vocals well, but the jam is so genuine sounding. It's not a typical Maze like I'm used to ... the build and then the peak of the jam are just so ... I dunno, new sounding. It's a very fresh sounding Maze jam that I really dug last night.

All I really watched was Dinner & A Movie (which features Trey nearly destroying the song during that section after the first verse) .. then skipped ahead to Free, Nothing, Maze, Frankenstein.

I couldn't believe how much I enjoyed Free. Typically I hate Free! (Sorry Free fans!). And I've always liked Nothing somehow - one of my favorites on Undermind ... and IMO it's played very well here. Frankenstein was really tight! It must have helped that they soundchecked with it.

Trey looks uncomfortable in his own skin thru much of this .... anyone else think so? Just some of the faces he makes, particularly while singing ... even his "thank you, be right back" as the set ends seems like he's not comfortable. His little backstage solo rehearsal too... must have just had a lot on his mind. Like hard drugs. Or ending his career. Whatever though.

After listening to Colorado '88 almost nonstop, the sound quality alone on that Brooklyn release goes a long way! And maybe the overall contrast against that early, early Phish sound brings out the best in what they were doing at the very end.

I hate to admit it, but I think I'm finally getting used to the idea that late-period Phish simply is what it is. It has its own merit, you know?
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Postby gregradiohead » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:01 am

ALMOST ONE YEAR LATER BUMP

I come back to this release once or twice a year just to see if I feel any differently. I also want to re-start some discussion on this DVD since it's been awhile since we've all had our say, and maybe everybody else's opinions have shifted over time, too.

Set I
Well, it's certainly neat that they played Dinner and a Movie and The Curtain (With). Sample has weird placement. I don't mind this song, but it didn't work for me here. The Moma -> Free is as good as I remember, and I still argue that this is the highlight of the show: a dark, post-hiatus style super space funk jam followed by a funky Free with a Trey/Mike duo duel of sorts. Nothing is the token ballad, Maze is just plain average, and Frankenstein closes the set on a fun note.

Set II
Is it just me, or does anybody else feel like this whole set was "planned" ahead of time?? I seem to recall there being rumors that the summer 04 sets were planned ahead of time, but of the shows I've heard, this one would support that theory best. I actually like the 46 Days -> Possum a lot more this time around, but the fact that they play non-stop from here until BOAF without any genuine segues feels either forced or the work of a carefully planned setlist. The Post-Suzy Jam isn't a total wash like I used to think it was, but it's still not very good. After Kung, the set turns into a by-the-numbers affair. Mike's Song is its usual auto-pilot fall asleep post-hiatus self (seriously, if they were going to play Mike's Groove the same boring way post-hiatus, with Trey butchering I Am Hydrogen, I'd rather they have dropped it and kept Fluffhead!!), I Am Hydrogen is almost painfully botched by Trey, and Weekapaug Groove, despite having a couple good licks from Trey, sounds like nobody is listening to each other.

Encore
The Divided Sky encore is a nice nod to fans, but again, if Trey is going to murder it, then just don't play it. Throughout the performance I could tell that Trey really wanted to nail it, and really loves the song, but he's either not up to it or hasn't practiced enough.

Final Thoughts
I was thinking the other day about how things with Phish will never ever get back to the way they were. This seems like a stupid, obvious thing to say, but hear me out. It's obvious that with even two years off, they couldn't manage the heavily composed songs anymore, or at least not as WELL as they used to be able to. As much as I want to say that the thing I like best about Phish is their improvisation, and I'm willing to take a sloppily played song if it has a nice jam afterward, I think I'm changing my mind. I was watching the Pavement DVD the other day, and while I used to think their sloppy, ramshackle live show was amusing and in the spirit of great rock bands, now I can see why Stephen Malkmus broke up the band. It's better to be able to play songs competently and have a few moments of spontaneity than it is to play songs really sloppily and have lots of spontaneity.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: there's a happy medium between playing composed songs perfectly well and being a loose, sloppy punk rock band who can barely hold it together. Somewhere along the line, Phish lost that balance. While I still think post-hiatus Phish is a fascinating and worthwhile period of their career, I definitely now can see it as the beginning of the artistic disintegration of Trey (in terms of technical skill and songwriting) as well as the point where the things that threatened to destroy Phish during '99 and '00 got even worse.
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Postby goldphish » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:48 am

Cool post Greg. To be honest I never bothered buying this DVD. I wouldn't mind owning it but there are so many things to buy and so little money! (In my case at least) Phish had many wonderful moments... I caught a few and missed a lot.
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Postby fone » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:46 pm


guess what I'm trying to say is: there's a happy medium between playing composed songs perfectly well and being a loose, sloppy punk rock band who can barely hold it together. Somewhere along the line, Phish lost that balance. While I still think post-hiatus Phish is a fascinating and worthwhile period of their career, I definitely now can see it as the beginning of the artistic disintegration of Trey (in terms of technical skill and songwriting) as well as the point where the things that threatened to destroy Phish during '99 and '00 got even worse.


Once again I find your analyses so clear, insightful, and well written. And the courage to share them is always refreshing.

The creative and expressive mechanism between and among the four members of Phish began its breakdown as early as '97, possibly earlier. It's entirely possible the seeds of their breakup were easily planted even longer ago than that. It's hard to say without knowing what each of them knows.

But their musical relationship was unbelievably intense. It had to be for them to achieve what I consider to be some of the best improvisational playing that I've ever heard by any rock or jazz combo. And in order to achieve that not only meant that they had to spend inordinate amounts of time together practising, performing and recording, but had to be in each other's psyche more than most married couples. They knew and understood so much about each other's moods, emotions, strengths and weaknesses.

Living their lives in that proximity to one another in order to achieve the musical goals that they were striving for, had to take its toll. Maybe Trey's habits were a part of that, if not, his drug use had to effect the other band members, as it would any family member of an addicted personality. As much as the other three members of the band had talent enough to stay up with Trey, and complement his every nuance, I don't think any one of them did not understand that Phish's creative spark was Trey, and it must have torn them up to see him begin to waste that.

But I'm a cockeyed optimist. I believe this band can come back together and in some respects be better than they were, but only if they don't try to be the same as they were. They can't achieve that. Through the use of supporting musicians and a reworking of some of the older songs, I think they can still play with one another as well as they ever did together.

I happen to believe, to achieve what they did, had to have taken a goodly amount of love for one another. And I don't think that love is gone. I believe they had to back away from each other because Trey's additions were killing them slowly. If he can truly rehabilitate, and begin looking at his music as the discipline he once did, re-think the touring process, and keep his priorities straight, I think there's a chance for these four very talented musicians to re-invent themselves as a new band.

But it would definitely be up to us to allow that to happen, without craving one more Antelope for old time's sake.
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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby hosemasterflex » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:08 pm

You guys. I'm not supposed to cry at work here, you guys.

:D

Great couple posts right there - well said.

I've often thought that the seeds for the breakup were sown (sewn?) as early as 1993, when the intense material stopped appearing, and when the Elektra Records ball really got rolling. The intensity of Trey's general playing gradually dipped year after year, from 94, down a notch in 95, even more mellowed by 96. That's the second-most striking change for me, after the change in the nature of the material to a less intense, less crafty style.
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Postby goldphish » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:27 pm

Yeah thats interesting. Seeing them, albeit less than 20 times, from 93-95 I had formulated my opinions on their rise and fall. Seems that creative burst peaked in 93' but the energy created a wave that reached its heights in 95 and came crashing down in all its glory Dec 95 culminating, of course, with the New Years show. After that year phish was a novelty for me.

Meh. Of course there was much wonderful music made in the 2nd half of their career, possibly their best stuff? But it was missing the innocence and purity of youth.
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Postby fone » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:30 am

Sonted. Disk 3. Wii Tennis

::doesn't belive there's anything more to say::
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Postby ghost » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:41 am

I just dug out DVD Disc 1 to see (and hear) Nothing. I like that song a lot. I remember watching it in the theater and thinking that it sounded so good and seeing Trey look over at Page while they were playing this incredible music and I wondered why (and how) they could be stopping Phish. So I couldn't play the DVD because the DVD player has stopped working for the first time. What to do about that? Ugh. I hate doing stuff.

This is the first time in a year or so that I have gone anywhere near the Phish Brooklyn anything. Just a random rainy afternoon kind of thing. How about you, Fone?

EDIT: I just watched it on the computer. My memory was a bit off on how the song started. Trey actually starts out facing Fish and Mike. As they get going he looks over at Page. I forgot how fun it is to watch them play in addition to listening. It's a new song, and Trey is communicating with the other guys mentally and through music as they play it together. He checks to see if Page is OK, and he's completely fine not looking up in need of any visual cues.
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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby fone » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:14 am


ghost wrote:
This is the first time in a year or so that I have gone anywhere near the Phish Brooklyn anything. Just a random rainy afternoon kind of thing. How about you, Fone?

EDIT: I just watched it on the computer. My memory was a bit off on how the song started. Trey actually starts out facing Fish and Mike. As they get going he looks over at Page. I forgot how fun it is to watch them play in addition to listening. It's a new song, and Trey is communicating with the other guys mentally and through music as they play it together. He checks to see if Page is OK, and he's completely fine not looking up in need of any visual cues.


I watched the dvd about six months ago and went through the cds right after that. But this afternoon, after painting, Marie went to her friends house, I showered, lit one up, and went looking for something to get me movin while I played wii tennis. Brooklyn was just staring at me from its spot on the shelf, and ordered me to play it.

It was a rainy afternoon, and I danced and played tennis to some very loud music in front of the playroom windows as this old guy walked his dog past my house. He glanced in as I was flailing at the tennis ball and bouncing to the music, and must have thought I was a madman.

I would have had to agreed with him.
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The Official Brooklyn DVD/CD Thread

Postby ghost_2000 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:29 am

I really enjoy "Nothing" as well, Eli!

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