Our President

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Our President

Postby Fluffy Bunny » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:54 am

We've had some good political discussions on here recently, how abouts a new one?




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Postby pdavis510 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:13 am

I liked Clinton, I liked Bush (yes one of the low percentage that liked him), but I can't bring myself to believe in or support this guy. He seems like a good person, just not the kind of leader I want.
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Postby GratefulPhish » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:00 am

I was too young to vote, but in this poll I voted did not vote, disapprove
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Postby 420golgod » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:12 am

I voted one way or another in the election, but haven't voted another way or one in this poll, because I'm on the fence still.
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Postby JEMP » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:29 am

hes looking more and more like gwb 2.0 as time passes
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Postby Fluffy Bunny » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:33 am


jemp21797 wrote:hes looking more and more like gwb 2.0 as time passes


yeah, except Europe likes Obama.




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Postby Ship Of Fools » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:41 am

I voted against him, and I disapprove of the job he's doing. And that includes his work on pretty much every issue. Everything he does is against what I believe in.

EDIT: Also, not all of Europe likes Obama.
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Postby Fluffy Bunny » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:59 am

fine, Europe likes Obama a hell of a lot more than they liked Bush. which is an improvement in my mind, not much of one though
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Postby Ship Of Fools » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:03 am

^ I hear ya. I just personally don't give two shits what Europe thinks honestly. They don't seem to care what we think, so I don't see why I should treat them any differently. I also think that Europe does a whole lot of talking but not much doing. ::runs before Glenn gets here::
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Postby charlieJack » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:37 am

i think i'll give him at least four years before i declare his presidency a success or a failure.

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it fights me like a trampoline
it won't let me to the ground
so this time i'm not coming down
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Postby Fluffy Bunny » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:47 am

I'm not asking if he's a success or failure, I'm asking if you currently approve or disapprove of the work he is doing
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Postby Harpua » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:49 am

I can't state my opinion on the president, court order.
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Postby Fee » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:11 am

I voted against Obama and disapprove. I just felt like the American people had the wool pulled over their eyes. Let's face it though the republican ticket was a tough sell after the Bush Presidency. Obama ran has the "change" and "hope" guy. Like I expected though same old BS in Washington.
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Postby pdavis510 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:33 pm

Europe will never really like America. Unless America completely goes third world and becomes an insignificant nation, even then, they may only let us lick their boot heels.

Who cares what Europe thinks about us? How does their opinion of us affect ANYTHING in the U.S.? They still buy our crap, and we buy theirs. Commerce ignores how much people like each other.
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Postby Emmet Grogan » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:23 pm

This is the 6th administration I've seen in my lifetime, which isn't really much, I guess. As politics cycles you begin to see a lot about politicians, the media and citizens. I think right now American people and their TV sets are more disassociated form reality then ever in my lifetime.

I think anyone who claims to know the reality about what's going on in the Government is fooling themselves. One thing is for sure in my book. The current hype over Obama is more insane than anything I've ever seen. TV news has become strictly entertainment and commentary. People complain that Obama's campaign was so over-hyped, but it was pretty much a regular campaign, people just bought into it because they were so beaten down by the last administration's fascist imperialist leanings. Now everyone is crying that Obama hasn't revolutionized the world because he promoted the "change" brand catchword. The guy is in a tough spot, being criticized at the same time as being a radical leftist, socialist, racist and a Nazi, as well as being just another corporate schill operating business as usual in Washington. I didn't expect him to be really radical. I tend to disagree with him about how he sees Government functioning, but I tend to disagree with EVERY politician about how they see Government functioning.

So in some respect I think asking "do you approve the President" is kind of a dumb question because I can't say I approve of any President... I think their are probably some fundamental flaws with the way all of America chooses to see itself and any successful politician is going to reflect that back to people.

Still, I think McCain and Obama were the best candidates we'd had in a log time, maybe in my lifetime, and I wonder what McCain would be doing as President. He really fucked up by allowing Palin to be his running mate, much in the way Obama fucked up by bailing out the banks... In both situations these guys were presented as alternative political leaders and ended up doing stupid shit in order to please assholes.

Really the problem isn't the Government. Americans on the whole are fat, stupid, lazy, and mindless. They have been totally pacified by entertainment and their minds have been warped by media and marketing. They sense of entitlement that runs through so much of America has gone beyond absurdity. I think people are happy to wallow in their own shit, take no responsibility for themselves or their communities, and blame the Government, Immigrants, Corporations, White Men, Black Men, Dick Cheney, Barack Obama for either fucking up their lives or not fixing their problems.

I gotta say I think the Republican Party is fucked. Maybe your hung up on so called fiscal conservativism and hate Obama for how he's dealt with the economy, but the Republican Party has devolved into something so insane right now, it's not even funny. So I guess I'm glad Obama is president.

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Postby Clark W. Griswold » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:38 pm

Meh, I approve (so far). I mean, I'm not one to get into any big discussions about politics for the simple reason that I don't think that my opinion means one ounce of shit. I can go out and vote, but does my vote really matter. Besides each and every politician in the world is nothing but a glorified bullshitter. They tell evryone what they want to hear, and then once elected, they do whatever they want (which is usually the opposite of what they campaigned on) and then say that it's Congress and this person and that group that won't let them do what they originally wanted.
When it comes to the national scene, I don't really pay that much attention. I'm more concerned about local politics. That's where I feel like my opinion matters. Not that it matters all that much, but I seem to have a stronger voice when it comes to local politics.

So, yeah, I approve, but I guess it's only 'cause I'm still alive and we haven't been attacked on US soil again......yet.

*oh, and the only reason I didn't vote is because I am only registered where I went to college, which is 3 hours from where I live. So I couldn't vote right down the street from my house. I was not about to drive 6 hours just to punch a ballot, ya dig!*
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Postby The Ubiquitous Smokey » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:40 pm

We expected too much out of one person. His recent moves I can't stand, the health care reform is not making him any more popular.

I voted for him, and probably bought into the hype of it all. I wish there had been a better challenger than McCain, the whole election was decided months before the actual vote.

I think he walked in and people world wide thought he was going to CHANGE everything overnight.

I think, like all politicians, he is guilty of major flip-flopping, going back on a LOT of campain promises.
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Postby marco » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:15 pm

Politicians haven't been solving humanities problems, are not now, nor will they begin to.
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Postby SuperJay » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:19 pm

I think he's doing a better job than any other president in my lifetime with the possible exception of Clinton. Obama inherited a great country in a shitty condition. His own party isn't really helping matters, and the GOP as a whole is more interested in seeing Obama fail than in seeing America succeed. So you can look around and complain all you want, but you can't put most of those problems on Obama's shoulders.

That said, I'm not an Obama-maniac. He's made mistakes; he'll make more. He's almost TOO concerned with multi-lateralism and bipartisanship and with everybody getting along. Why waste the time? You're not going to single-handedly heal the incredibly deep divisions in this country - no one person can do that, not when so many politicians and talking heads have an interest in keeping us divided. So stop trying to bend over backwards to accomodate everyone.

Do what you know you need to do to fix the problems you can. Offer concessions where there's a practical value in doing so and a reasonable chance they will actually promote some bipartisan cooperation. When you get spurned by people who care more about their own political careers than the country they were elected to serve, thank them politely and push on without them.

I'm not wild about the Bush-era policies he's decided to continue, either, but on the whole it's still a huge improvement. You have to understand that the Bush / Cheney years were a complete black hole for those of us with progressive values. And yes, I do care about what Europe and the rest of the world think of America. It's the 21st century - we can't be an isolationist regressive empire anymore. The Cheney presidency and its "yeah? well fuck you!" attitude toward the rest of the world was utterly disgusting.

Honestly, I think you're only going to feel let down or disappointed if you let yourself believe the Obama hype or honestly expected the country to magically get all better overnight. He's a politician, not the second coming of Christ.
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Postby Rusty Shackleford » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:26 pm

receive this in an email through work
voted against, disapprove.

> >>>>> Dr. Krauthammer is on Fox News. He is an M.D. and he is
> >>>>> paralyzed from the neck down. Be forewarned on what is happening. A
> >>>>> friend went to hear Charles Krauthammer. He listened with 25 others in closed
> >>>>> room. What he says here, is NOT 2nd-hand, but 1st. You would do well to read and pass this along to
> >>>>> EVERYBODY that loves his country. This is VERY serious for the direction of
> >>>>> our country. The ramifications are staggering for us and our children.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Last Monday was a profound evening, hearing Dr. Charles Krauthammer speak to
> >>>>> the Center for the American Experiment. He is brilliant intellectual,
> >>>>> seasoned and articulate. He is forthright and careful in his analysis, and
> >>>>> never resorts to emotions or personal insults. He is NOT a fear monger nor
> >>>>> an extremist in his comments and views. He is a fiscal conservative, and has
> >>>>> a Pulitzer Prize for writing. He is a frequent contributor to Fox News and
> >>>>> writes weekly for the Washington Post. The entire room was held spellbound
> >>>>> during his talk. I have shared this with many of you and several have asked
> >>>>> me to summarize his comments, as we are living in uncharted waters
> >>>>> economically and internationally.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even 2 Dems at my table agreed with everything he said! If you feel like
> >>>>> forwarding this to those who are open minded and have not drunk the
> >>>>> Kool-Aid, feel free.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Summary of his comments:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. Mr. Obama is a very intellectual, charming individual. He is not to be
> >>>>> underestimated. He is a cool customer who doesn't show his emotions. It's
> >>>>> very hard to know what's behind the mask. Taking down the Clinton dynasty
> >>>>> from a political neophyte was an amazing accomplishment. The Clintons still
> >>>>> do not understand what hit them. Obama was in the perfect place at the
> >>>>> perfect time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. Obama has political skills comparable to Reagan and Clinton. He has a way
> >>>>> of making you think he's on your side, agreeing with your position, while
> >>>>> doing the opposite. Pay no attention to what he SAYS; rather, watch what he DOES!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3. Obama has a ruthless quest for power. He did not come to Washington to
> >>>>> make something out of himself, but rather to change everything, including
> >>>>> dismantling capitalism. He can't be straightforward on his ambitions, as the
> >>>>> public would not go along. He has a heavy hand, and wants to level the
> >>>>> playing field with income redistribution and punishment to the achievers of
> >>>>> society. He would like to model the USA to Great Britain or Canada .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 4. His three main goals are to control ENERGY, PUBLIC EDUCATION, AND
> >>>>> NATIONAL HEALTH CARE by the Federal government. He doesn't care about the
> >>>>> auto or financial services industries, but got them as an early bonus. The
> >>>>> cap and trade will add costs to everything and stifle growth. Paying for
> >>>>> FREE college education is his goal. Most scary is his healthcare program,
> >>>>> because if you make it FREE and add 46,000,000 people to a Medicare-type
> >>>>> single-payer system, the costs will go through the roof. The only way to
> >>>>> control costs is with massive RATIONING of services, like in Canada. God
> >>>>> forbid.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 5. He has surrounded himself with mostly far-left academic types. No one
> >>>>> around him has ever even run a candy store. But they are going to try and
> >>>>> run the auto, financial, banking and other industries. This obviously can't
> >>>>> work in the long run. Obama is not a socialist; rather he's a far-left
> >>>>> secular progressive bent on nothing short of revolution. He ran as a
> >>>>> moderate, but will govern from the hard left. Again, watch what he does,
> >>>>> not what he says.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 6. Obama doesn't really see himself as President of the United States , but
> >>>>> more as a ruler over the world. He sees himself above it all, trying to
> >>>>> orchestrate and coordinate various countries and their agendas. He sees
> >>>>> moral equivalency in all cultures. His apology tour in Germany and England
> >>>>> was a prime example of how he sees America, as an imperialist nation that
> >>>>> has been arrogant, rather than a great noble nation that has at times made
> >>>>> errors. This is the first President ever who has chastised our allies and
> >>>>> appeased our enemies!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 7. He is now handing out goodies. He hopes that the bill (and pain) will not
> >>>>> come due until after he is re-elected in 2012. He would like to blame all
> >>>>> problems on Bush from the past, and hopefully his successor in the future.
> >>>>> He has a huge ego, and Mr. Krauthammer believes he is a narcissist.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 8. Republicans are in the wilderness for a while, but will emerge strong.
> >>>>> We're pining for another Reagan, but there will never be another like him.
> >>>>> Krauthammer believes Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty and Bobby Jindahl (except for
> >>>>> his terrible speech in February) are the future of the party. Newt Gingrich
> >>>>> is brilliant, but has baggage. Sarah Palin is sincere and intelligent, but
> >>>>> needs to really be seriously boning up on facts and info if
> >>>>> she is to be a serious candidate in the future. We need to return to the
> >>>>> party of lower taxes, smaller government, personal responsibility, strong
> >>>>> national defense, and state's rights.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 9. The current level of spending is irresponsible and outrageous. We are
> >>>>> spending trillions that we don't have. This could lead to hyper-inflation,
> >>>>> depression or worse. No country has ever spent themselves into prosperity.
> >>>>> The media is giving Obama, Reid and Pelosi a pass because they love their
> >>>>> agenda. But eventually the bill will come due and people will realize the
> >>>>> huge bail outs didn't work, nor will the stimulus package.
> >>>>> These were trillion-dollar payoffs to Obama's allies, unions and the
> >>>>> Congress to placate the left, so he can get support for #4 above.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 10. The election was over in mid-September when Lehman brothers failed, fear
> >>>>> and panic swept in, we had an unpopular President, and the war was grinding
> >>>>> on indefinitely without a clear outcome. The people are in pain, and the
> >>>>> mantra of change caused people to act emotionally. Any Dem would have won
> >>>>> this election; it was surprising it was as close as it was.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 11. In 2012, if the unemployment rate is over 10%, Republicans will be swept
> >>>>> back into power. If it's under 8%, the Dems continue to roll. If it's
> >>>>> between 8-10%, it will be a dogfight. It will all be about the economy. I
> >>>>> hope this gets you really thinking about what's happening in Washington and
> >>>>> Congress. There is a left-wing revolution going on, according to
> >>>>> Krauthammer, and he encourages us to keep the faith and join the loyal
> >>>>> resistance. The work will be hard, but we're right on most issues and can
> >>>>> reclaim our country, before it's far too late.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do yourself a long term favor, send this to all who will listen to an
> >>>>> intelligent assessment of the big picture. All our futures and children's
> >>>>> futures depend on our good understanding of what is really going on in
> >>>>> DC!!!! And our action pursuant to that understanding! !! It really IS up to
> >>>>> each of us to take individual action!!! Start with educating your friends
> >>>>> and neighbors!!!
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Our President

Postby goldenroad » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:49 pm

^ That was good for some lols.

"Newt Gingrich is brilliant"??!??!?!?
"Sarah Palin is sincere and intelligent"
"Obama doesn't really see himself as President of the United States , but
more as a ruler over the world." (okay fine...but as opposed to Regan or either Bush...come on) Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.
And yet
"We're pining for another Reagan, but there will never be another like him."
"Paying for FREE college education is his goal"
"Most scary is his healthcare program, because if you make it FREE and add 46,000,000 people to a Medicare-type single-payer system, the costs will go through the roof."
ZOMG...free education and health care...what a horrible country that would be to live in!


Sorry...that whole post cracked me up. Are republicans really that oblivious? Do they really feel that Obama is going to do any more harm to America by assisting American's who need help, than Bush did by ignoring them and waging wars on other countries instead of focusing on America's problems?

All I know, is I didn't vote, but thus far I approve, if only because he hasn't started an invasion of another country since he's been in office.

EDIT:

Sorry this one was funny too:

"The only way to control costs is with massive RATIONING of services, like in Canada. God forbid."

I guess we "ration our services", in that sense that I, personally, only go to the doctor when I'm sick and only call the fire department when there's a fire, etc. There's no real rules saying that I can't go to the doctor even if I'm not sick...I really don't get what other services are "rationed" for Canadians...I can't think of any. I take it most American's are the same way...or do you guys just go to the Doctor every day regardless of whether you're sick or not?

I can still go buy whatever I want whenever I want provided I have the money, and because we have a decent health care system, I can afford to have the money to buy stuff. Everyone here gets their health tened to whether you have money or not, America only RATIONS their health care amongst the wealthy. There's nothing wrong with letting everyone make use of the roads, or fire departments or police service, so why is it all the sudden a socialist thing to let everyone have health care.

Imagine if all of the sudden you had to pay to drive on the highway, or you had to give the police your insurance or credit card number before they would come out to stop someone from breaking into your house.

Sorry...I just find it absolutely disgusting when people act like we have it bad in Canada because we have free health care. It's just stubborness I guess...there's not logic to that kind of reasoning.
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Our President

Postby drbadgely » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:53 pm

Meh. Politicians are wolves in different sheep's clothing.

Democrats and Republicans just use differing methods to distribute $$$ to the mega-corporations and mega-banks that truly run America.

Tax cuts to the right, government programs to the left. Here I am, stuck in the middle with you...

:D
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Postby SuperJay » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:03 pm

So basically, a Republican writer and commentator had a talk at a conservative think-tank and he regurgitated the same old GOP routine talking points? Gosh, what a surprise.

I'll give Krauthammer credit for being intelligent, coherent, and practical (unlike many of his fellow conservative pundits, a la Limbaugh and Bill-O), and for not toeing the party line on issues like reproductive rights and "intelligent design." But unfortunately most of your list is just fabricated suppositions about Barack Obama's character and personality.

I'm open-minded about fact-based criticism of government and politicians, but most of these remarks are just opinionated bullshit. Yes, yes, Obama thinks he's better than all of us, he sees himself as the ruler of the world, he has a radical socialist agenda, he seeks to "overthrow" capitalism, he committed the atrocity of apologizing for our past mistakes so he must hate America... right, of course this is all backed up by... oh wait, nothing. Just more hot air without any factual basis. The followers will eat it up, of course.
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Postby SuperJay » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:09 pm

^^^ And yeah, I love the complete lies that proponents of a broken healthcare system create to bolster their flagging cause. "GOD FORBID we have it as bad as Canada, where grandmothers die by the hundreds and babies are routinely thrown in dumpsters because of RATIONED CARE."

So either someone as intelligent, articulate, and well-read as Krauthammer either doesn't know much about the national healthcare systems in England and Canada, or he is deliberately playing off the fears of "rationed care" in another attempt to scare the followers. Take your pick, it's one of the two.
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Postby clevername » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:21 pm

^^^^ Sorry, as soon as I saw the words FOX NEWS, I couldn't take that post seriously. I'll address one point though.

"Most scary is his healthcare program, because if you make it FREE and add 46,000,000 people to a Medicare-type single-payer system, the costs will go through the roof."

NOBODY except right-wing fear mongers has used the words SINGLE PAYER. The ONLY people who have a good reason not to want health care reform are insurance company executives and the politicians who get their pockets lined by said executives. The whole point is to have a public OPTION. If you have insurance and you like it, THERE WILL BE NO CHANGE.

Not to rant here, but approximately 30% of every dollar spent on health care in this nation goes to ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS. That is just plain disgusting.

This is from a report comparing administrative costs of US private insurers to Canadian private insurers and the Canadian national health insurance plan:

Source: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/349/8/768 (New England Journal of Medicine)
"In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States, or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada's national health insurance program had overhead of 1.3 percent. Providers' administrative costs were far lower in Canada.

Between 1969 and 1999, the share of the U.S. health care labor force accounted for by administrative workers grew from 18.2 percent to 27.3 percent. In Canada, it grew from 16.0 percent in 1971 to 19.1 percent in 1996. (Both nations' figures exclude insurance-industry personnel.)

Conclusions: The gap between U.S. and Canadian spending on health care administration has grown to $752 per capita. A large sum might be saved in the United States if administrative costs could be trimmed by implementing a Canadian-style health care system."

Think about that for a minute. Almost ONE THIRD of every dollar that every privately insured person in the US spends on health care goes towards ADMINISTRATIVE costs. Isn't insurance expensive and ineffective enough as it is?

[/rant]
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