Star Wars

[goldphish]

there's some echos up in here, up in here..

Great kid! Don't get cocky, don't get cocky!

[phishinsky]

Up in here, Up in here...

[hosemasterflex]

Hey dudes there's this new Star Wars movie, who 'seen it?

[willbreathes]

I've seen things.

[El Bastarde]

MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW! BEWARE!!

I saw it on Saturday. Not too bad...feels like it could fit right in with the original three movies in the "feel" sense. I liked how they still included goofy stuff like a shot of a weird muppet-esque bird bashing it's beak into some metal object...just to add some of that atmosphere.

There were a few honky moments like R2D2 randomly being shut down and then just coming to life at the most convenient time for the plot...I didn't quite get why he was out in the first place. And, when you think about it, the idea of there being a map to Skywalker makes you wonder who made the map in the first place and how it got lost...but it's best to not think TOO much on Star Wars...they're designed to be pretty simple storylines. I saw it with my parents and really didn't have to explain anything to them outside of the names of a few of the characters.

I was pleased to see that Andy Serkis plays the new Supreme Leader villain...that dude's a great actor so I'm hoping the villain will be worthwhile. Loved the fight scenes and the part where Rey inserts her will on Ren and reads his mind was pretty sweet. (Also, apparently Daniel Craig plays the Stormtrooper who Rey uses the Jedi Mind trick on which is pretty cool since I didn't recognize him).

[y0n]

MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW! BEWARE!!

I saw it on Saturday. Not too bad...feels like it could fit right in with the original three movies in the "feel" sense. I liked how they still included goofy stuff like a shot of a weird muppet-esque bird bashing it's beak into some metal object...just to add some of that atmosphere.

There were a few honky moments like R2D2 randomly being shut down and then just coming to life at the most convenient time for the plot...I didn't quite get why he was out in the first place. And, when you think about it, the idea of there being a map to Skywalker makes you wonder who made the map in the first place and how it got lost...but it's best to not think TOO much on Star Wars...they're designed to be pretty simple storylines. I saw it with my parents and really didn't have to explain anything to them outside of the names of a few of the characters.

I was pleased to see that Andy Serkis plays the new Supreme Leader villain...that dude's a great actor so I'm hoping the villain will be worthwhile. Loved the fight scenes and the part where Rey inserts her will on Ren and reads his mind was pretty sweet. (Also, apparently Daniel Craig plays the Stormtrooper who Rey uses the Jedi Mind trick on which is pretty cool since I didn't recognize him).

Spoilers!!
IIRC the map was to the original Jedi temple where they were fairy certain Luke was hanging out, not actually to his whereabouts, if that makes sense
EDIT: Actually on my second viewing this is unclear exactly what the map was

[Katiemay]

Saw it yesterday. Loved it. Agree with what Stevo said about the "feel" and the humor. Nostalgia factor was through the roof. Teared up a few times and more than that once. Left the theater just trying to maintain composure.
More to follow. I have a Phish show to get to!

[hosemasterflex]

I've been reading all this really really negative shit about this movie at theforce.net's message board ... just curious what the analysis is. Holy crap people are impossible.

I loved this movie.

I don't think it touches the first two films; what really does?

But I don't think it's that far ahead of any of the other four. It certainly beats Attack of the Clones in my book, ... but not by miles or anything. That movie still has a lot of good things going for it, despite what irks me.

I think people are entirely too harsh on the prequels ... I like the prequel albums and think they did as well as could be expected (from an older rock band like Star Wars).

But you know, VII: TFA has its share of lame dialogue, and there are legit complaints about it (just like the prequel complaints are legit) ...

I guess at this point I think I like it more than Attack of the Clones & Return of the Jedi ... but I can't bring myself to say I like it more than I or III. I think in time people will calm down. Prequel haters might never be swayed an inch. But I think in general those three films will be appreciated more than they currently are.

The Force Awakens suffers from two main things IMO - 1) Snoke is a frustratingly uninteresting villain, and 2) It's all but a reboot of 'IV: A New Hope'.

That said, I don't freaking mind. The Starkiller Base business is a little ridiculous and impossible, and the Nazi allusion is a little too blatant ... shit like that in there ... but you know, people who don't like this film whatsoever expected Gamehenge II.

[El Bastarde]

SPOILERS BELOW!!

IIRC the map was to the original Jedi temple where they were fairy certain Luke was hanging out, not actually to his whereabouts, if that makes sense

This is kinda what I guessed it was but they never really call it that...just "a map to Skywalker." Doesn't explain why it was split in two or why R2D2 didn't bother to show it to anyone but, hey, it's a movie.

I've been reading all this really really negative shit about this movie at theforce.net's message board

Ug...now why would you go to a dedicated Star Wars board about this? You know it's just dorks who seem to think that Star Wars' writing is on the level of the Godfather and who are bummed when a movie series mostly directed at kids doesn't give them some deep storyline. Of course they'll nitpick it.

I don't think it touches the first two films; what really does

It doesn't...but how do you top Darth Vader in those two movies? Not possible. But it felt like it "belonged" with those original movies, if that makes sense.

But you know, VII: TFA has its share of lame dialogue, and there are legit complaints about it

I felt there were a few small annoying plot things and JJ Abrams seems to be a big fan of circumstance to get his characters out of jams but that's no real surprise. I heard some whiny stuff about how [s]Rey should never have been able to take out Ren[/s] but that worked for me in my mind for many reasons.

The Force Awakens suffers from two main things IMO - 1) Snoke is a frustratingly uninteresting villain, and 2) It's all but a reboot of 'IV: A New Hope'.

I'll give Snoke a bit of a chance to shine...to be fair, he's really doing the same role the Emperor did in the first two Star Wars movies where he's just a hologram who gives orders...they have Andy Serkis playing him who can really make a role shine if given the chance...I'll hold out on Snoke being more interesting.

As for the reboot stuff, I'll give you that. I was surprised at how many parallels this movie had to New Hope. First Order looking just like the Empire, Rey being very similar to Luke as a pilot from a desert planet, Snoke in the Emperor role, Solo (Rey's mentor) getting killed similar to Obi Wan (Luke's mentor), blowing up another "Death Star" which blows up planets, pilots going down a "valley" in the Death Star in similar fashion, etc, etc.

[ghost]

I saw The Force Awakens just after Christmas. I liked it. It had lots of cool parts, and it had the "feel" of the original movies, like you guys said. It didn't have anything really great that I was thinking about for awhile after I saw it. I can't even remember much of it now. I'll have to watch it again when the DVD comes out.

This is cool:
https://imgur.com/a/xNGNO

[El Bastarde]

[hosemasterflex]

Lego Star Wars (that first one they made of the prequels) is in my top all time ever video games played. Not sayin much, I'm no gamer. But an awesomely fun game.

I read that the next Episode might be titled either "Tale of the Jedi Temple" or "The Order of the Dark Side."

I could live with that first one. But the second one is just ... whut? That's stupid, if you ever cared about the SW mythology at all.

[El Bastarde]

Lego Star Wars (that first one they made of the prequels) is in my top all time ever video games played.

Dude, I love the Lego games. It's the same basic formula in each but they're a lot of fun and have a good sense of humor. I've played the ones for Star Wars, Clone Wars, Lord of the Rings, Indiana Jones, Batman, and Marvel. I'm a lil wary that this new one is only based on one game (while the original was based on three) but hopefully they pack it with content. Supposedly it also has some "post Return of the Jedi" stuff to fill in gaps in the story too.

I read that the next Episode might be titled either "Tale of the Jedi Temple" or "The Order of the Dark Side."

Meh...I don't think they can do worse than "Attack of the Clones." I'm not big on either title...both are too long.

But the second one is just ... whut? That's stupid, if you ever cared about the SW mythology at all.

Yes, but it's only stupid in Star Wars mythology if you follow the Sith history...except the Sith basically died with Palpatine so all the old rules are dead. Maybe a "Dark Side Order" is the next version of the Sith.

People take Star Wars lore too seriously anyway. For all the lore and history, each movie just ends up being an action movie where plot is secondary. Why care so much about the lore when the movies barely do?

[ghost]

Anyone see The Last Jedi?

I liked it. Plenty of action and cool stuff to look at. Too many elements from The Empire Strikes Back, but I understand that they're trying to link the old movies. How much more can they do? I think George Lucas finished doing all the cool stuff when he made Episodes 1-3. I understand the talk of these 9 movies being the end of the Skywalker story. It's been told. I enjoyed the untold mini story in Rogue One. I'm looking forward to the Han Solo movie.

I don't know if I like the funny stuff or not. Luke "milking" that big creature and drinking it was goofy/lame but somehow funny. I liked that it was mostly to weird Rey out. The kid me would be appalled to see the great Jedi Luke Skywalker doing that, but I just don't care anymore. It's a movie. Rey pissing off the Jedi-temple-upkeep-maid creatures by blasting a hole in the wall and then taking out their wheelbarrow was funny.

[hosemasterflex]

Anyone see The Last Jedi?

I liked it. Plenty of action and cool stuff to look at. Too many elements from The Empire Strikes Back, but I understand that they're trying to link the old movies. How much more can they do? I think George Lucas finished doing all the cool stuff when he made Episodes 1-3. I understand the talk of these 9 movies being the end of the Skywalker story. It's been told. I enjoyed the untold mini story in Rogue One. I'm looking forward to the Han Solo movie.

I don't know if I like the funny stuff or not. Luke "milking" that big creature and drinking it was goofy/lame but somehow funny. I liked that it was mostly to weird Rey out. The kid me would be appalled to see the great Jedi Luke Skywalker doing that, but I just don't care anymore. It's a movie. Rey pissing off the Jedi-temple-upkeep-maid creatures by blasting a hole in the wall and then taking out their wheelbarrow was funny.

I've seen it three times now, and I think I like it more each time. My first viewing was tough, I was in a bad mood, and didn't know how to process what felt like a series of disappointing reveals. And all of the various missions and battles are frustrating in this movie the first time, because they all fail and take forever.

But once you get your head around it, it's really a very good SW installment. I like it more than TFA for sure. Rogue One is so cool that I'm not sure how to compare it to TLJ. Not especially excited for Solo but I hope they surprise me.

Also not that pumped for Episode IX because they didn't leave a whole lot unresolved, the way VII did.

I thought the humor was typical of a SW movie, but maybe funnier than usual. My favorite funny moments are Leia's quip to C-3PO in the beginning, and the entire Mas Canata scene.

[El Bastarde]

It's maybe the first time since RTJ that a Star Wars movie felt like it was actually trying to break away from the legacy of the original trilogy. Felt refreshing. I tossed this list together after watching:

Things I liked:

-All Ren/Rey interactions. These could have been terrible and they came off as some of the better scenes in the movie.
-Killing off Snoke when we thought we were getting yet another Emperor ripoff. He was cool but Ren is better.
-The way they killed Snoke. Loved the upper torso flopping off.
-Almost everything with Adam Driver as Ren. Has this great combination of anger and power yet shows vulnerability and how he desperately wants a partner with him in this. When he says "please" when he asks Rey to join him was a cool touch.
-Ren being the Big Bad in the next movie. This series is about him and I'm glad it's staying that way. He's one of the most interesting character in the whole series.
-The subtle humor like how Hux reaches for his blaster but then puts it away as Ren starts to wake up. Or when we get a shirtless Ren and Rey stutters on how he could put on a shirt. Or how Rey tried to snatch her saber from Snoke and it spins around and nails her in the head.
-Finn and Rose's interactions. They go well together.
-Poe. He's basically the "new Han Solo" but I like the guy. Loved him trolling Hux at the start of the movie.
-Being surprised at how good Hamill and Fisher were.
-Luke's first moment being him tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder.
-The implication that this Empire vs Rebels thing should maybe be done away with entirely. Del Toro shows how people are profiting from both sides and Ren seems to imply moving on from both sides as well. I kinda wondered if this was about the series in general trying to rip away from the legacy of the old movies holding it down.
-When Rey mentions the "moving rocks" line from earlier in the movie at the end.
-The first scene which, while weird for introducing a bunch of characters and then killing them off immediately, was still pretty cool.
-That Rey really doesn't have some super-important parents. It's a little tiring how everyone who does anything in this series has to be related to a Skywalker in some way. Another good example of them breaking away from the series legacy.
-The awesome light-speed ship attack.
-R2D2 playing the original Princess Leia message for Luke. Maybe one of the coolest moments in the movie.

[hosemasterflex]

^Hey great post, totally agree with you for once, lol! Nice way to break it all down. That light speed ship attack moment, with the lightsaber breaking right then and all that, with the sound going out ... really a great moment.

[hosemasterflex]

https://www.youtube.com/user/PaletteSwapNinja

full parody of the Sgt Pepper album, telling the story of Star Wars IV: A New Hope in shockingly excellent fashion, do not fail to enjoy.

[El Bastarde]

^Hey great post, totally agree with you for once, lol

I actually had a list of "things I didn't like" but I kept getting kicked/banned from OKP for a half-hour when I'd post them. I still have no clue why it wouldn't work. I'll try to post them too.

with the lightsaber breaking right then and all that, with the sound going out ... really a great moment.

Reminded me of the "delayed explosions" they had in Empire but on a much cooler scale.

[El Bastarde]

Things I wasn't big on:

-Phasma's useless appearance. It almost felt like they believed she was a mistake in the first place and just got rid of her to be done with it. (A lot of this felt like it was correcting mistakes made by Abrams). Also, why they don't mass-produce her blaster-resistant armor for their en tire army is beyond me.
-The extremely convenient way Finn/Rose escaped. A giant light-speed ship blows it in half and the entire hanger is on fire but they're untouched and there just happens to be an intact ship there which no one else is stealing.
-That weird stuff when Rey went into the "dark hole in the ground." The multiple-Reys thing was strange and you thought there'd be some Dark Side temptation down there but nothing much happens.
-The pointless Maz Kanata cameo put in to remind us that she exists. Also, talking on the phone while in a gun battle looks really stupid.
-Space Mary Poppins with Leia. Just should have been done better. Though I'm glad the movie surprised me by keeping her alive.
-Finn's use in general. It's clear he didn't have much to do this movie but they had to do something. I actually like the character and actor but it kinda felt appropriate when it looked like he was dying at the end. Saving him felt like a bit of a red herring.
-The length. Could have been shorter but then every time I felt it was dragging, they had some scene that drew me back in.
-The fact that Abrams is back to do the next movie. I don't think he has the guts to keep this thing moving away from the past movies.

[Harpua]

There were things I liked and things I didn't like. The cons outweigh the pros for me.

Spoilers:

The Force Awakens did an excellent job of getting people invested in the characters, and excited about TLJ, but it turns out that all of it (ALL OF IT!) was a psych-out. It is cool that they decided to subvert expectations, I would have been disappointed if they gave us the obvious (A Skywalker or Obi-Wan is Rey's parent somehow; Snoke is Darth Sidious or Darth Plagueis somehow), but TLJ actively thumbed its nose at the anticipation that had been built up (Luke throwing the lightsaber, Snoke isn't important, Rey's parents are nobody).

The very first scene of the movie set the tone for me. Bugs Bunny (Poe) goes up to Elmer Fudd (Hux) wearing a telegram messenger uniform and says he has a candy gram for Fudd, which Fudd happily accepts. It is revealed that there is a bomb in the heart shaped box that Bugs delivered. There is a big explosion and Fudd gets bomb soot all over his face. (Meanwhile the evacuation of Hoth from ESB is going on.)

Remember the time in A New Hope when Han tried to B.S. an imperial "something-or-other" by pretending to be a guard over the intercom. Remember how the imperial "something-or-other" saw right through Han's ruse, and it ended with Han blasting the intercom and saying "boring conversation anyway." That was with a "something-or-other" - Hux is a general.

Meanwhile on Dagobah (Ahch-To), Luke (Rey) has found Yoda (Luke), but it turns out that the Yoda isn't quite what Luke expected, he's eccentric and reluctant to train Luke, but Luke decides to stand on the porch (Fight Club style) until Yoda agrees to train him (with a twist). Luke goes into a tree (hole in the ground) and has a cryptic / trippy vision. Later, Luke faces off against Darth Vader (Kylo Ren).

Meanwhile Han (Finn) and Leia (Rose) go to Cloud City (Space Vegas) where they get help from Lando Calrissian (Benicio Del Toro) but they don't know if they can trust him. After they decide to trust him, Lando hands Han and Leia over to Boba Fett (Phasma).

I'm not going to do a point by point breakdown, but TLJ isn't nearly as divergent from The Empire Strikes Back as people seem to believe. Granted TLJ isn't a remake like The Force Awakens was for A New Hope but it only pretends to give us a new story. It also gave us about a dozen "Why didn't..." moments, and about a thousand "It's awful convenient that..." moments.

The worst part is the suicide run Poe, Rose, and Finn go on. After Poe decides that the galaxy needs a living resistance more than it needs a martyr, Poe and Rose turn back, but Finn never broke off, because he decided to be reckless and selfless by sacrificing himself for his friends. Rose then decides that it is wrong to sacrifice yourself for a cause and sacrifices herself to prevent Finn from sacrificing himself. Before Rose and Poe broke off, all the stupid land planes (You know, the planes that only fly a meter off the ground, and balance on some sort of balancing stick, and the center of mass is way off to one side, because the cockpit is on the left wing) were in a pretty tight formation (giving us an awesome shot). Finn traveled in a straight line the entire time. Rose had to turn around TWICE, and they reach the same point at the same time. (Meanwhile, the Battle of Hoth is going on.) I cannot stress enough how stupid everything about that scene on Salt Hoth was.

Things I liked:
Light speed kamikaze.
Seeing Luke & Ben's breakup from both perspectives.
That last shot of Luke before he disappears (a call back to when we first see him on Tatooine).
R2D2 playing "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."

[hosemasterflex]

Good points. Especially about the whole psych-out factor. I still thought it was pretty great though. You know, I watched IV recently and was amazed by how many dumb lines Darth Vader has in the original movie. Important to remember that they're silliness in the first place. I was a little bummed after my first viewing, but I saw it twice more and liked it more each time.

[El Bastarde]

The Force Awakens did an excellent job of getting people invested in the characters, and excited about TLJ, but it turns out that all of it (ALL OF IT!) was a psych-out.

"All of it?" Come now. TFA had events that changed those characters. TLJ continued it. I do think is part of the factor of them changing directors. I felt like Johnson had to clean up some messes that Abrams left for him.

, but TLJ actively thumbed its nose at the anticipation that had been built up (Luke throwing the lightsaber, Snoke isn't important, Rey's parents are nobody).

Did you really expect a guy who has been in exile for years to just jump for joy to be coming back? Tossing the lightsaber was funny but quite predictable. Snoke clearly was important or the events in this movie didn't happen...just because Ren upended him doesn't mean he wasn't important. And I'm very glad he ISN'T the big bad because this series is about Ren. And I'm so glad Rey's parents were nobodies...it was part of the theme of the movie to pull away from all the legacy shit that's been dragging this series down. I'm tired of everyone and everything having to be related to a Skywalker.

The very first scene of the movie set the tone for me.

Not sure what you're saying here. So the scene wasn't funny? It's well known Hux is a buffoon and Snoke flat-out admits it later. He's used for comedy effect a number of times in the movies.

I'm not going to do a point by point breakdown, but TLJ isn't nearly as divergent from The Empire Strikes Back as people seem to believe.

I don't think anyone said it was...the part where Rey meets with Ren to meet Snoke was straight out of RTJ as well. But it's more like the themes and the obsession with continuing the themes of the original trilogy that it seemed to have moved on from.

Finn traveled in a straight line the entire time. Rose had to turn around TWICE, and they reach the same point at the same time.

Never mind that the light speed explosion would have killed everyone in the entire area...we're breaking down the speed physics of making a turn? Come on now. If we're going to break down the physics of an action movie we could be here all day. If you're nitpicking at this close a level, then I'm not sure if these types of action movies are for you. I do agree that it would have felt appropriate for Finn to die there and it was a little cheap for him to be saved but, at the same time, I kinda like the guy so I didn't mind that much.

Rose then decides that it is wrong to sacrifice yourself for a cause and sacrifices herself to prevent Finn from sacrificing himself.

You putting words in her mouth doesn't make her decision worse...she didn't say anything like that. She saved Finn because she likes the guy. What other reason does she need?

You know, I watched IV recently and was amazed by how many dumb lines Darth Vader has in the original movie. Important to remember that they're silliness in the first place.

Agreed. It's like there's two different Star Wars. There are the movies which are partly kid-oriented and are just cheesy action flicks with a few chill moments. Then there's the books and cartoons which are this detail-oriented, super-serious accounts of the Star Wars history, clearly made for dorks by dorks. Then these dorks go back to these movies and are disappointed that they're just cheesy action flicks and they can't seem to accept it. It's like they don't realize that this is what Star Wars always was and these movies will never live up to their expectations.

[Harpua]

Also not that pumped for Episode IX because they didn't leave a whole lot unresolved, the way VII did.

Aside from continuing Rey's coming of age story, it is very difficult to tell where they are going. The Rebellion is going to have to muster up more forces - this is probably where Maz comes in. We really don't know how big the First Order is. After the kamikaze it is possible that they are down to the just a few ships. We see that there are force capable children still out there, perhaps Rey or Kylo Ren try to find some of them. Perhaps an internal power struggle in the First Order. We did see a schism between Kylo Ren and Hux start to open, and Hux could rally troops against Kylo Ren (he murdered snoke and looked unstable as fuck on Salt Hoth). Maybe a Finn, Rey, and Rose love triangle?

So the scene wasn't funny?

It was funny. I'm just not a fan of the extreme buffoonery / ineptitude of a main villain (now second in command of the First Order) being what saved the rebellion. In this case, I kind of consider it deus ex machina, because I'm not sure that ineptitude of this magnitude had been previously established in the universe. Like I said, it was all very Bugs Bunny / Elmer Fudd, or like the dance off ending of Guardians of the Galaxy.

You putting words in her mouth doesn't make her decision worse...she didn't say anything like that.

I only saw it once and that was over a month ago, but the thrust of what she said was - don't sacrifice yourself to destroy things you hate; fight to protect things you love. Pairing that statement with her actions, one can reasonably infer that she disagreed with Finn's actions and believed that a sacrifice in the name of love (because she had no reason to believe she would survive the crash) is nobler than sacrificing yourself out of rage, even if that sacrifice could have potentially saved many (assuming the speeder would have destroyed the laser cannon - though it is possible that the speeder would have been vaporized before contact or just crash into the side with no effect).

at the same time, I kinda like the guy so I didn't mind that much.

I agree. He has a unique character arc, it would have been a shame if it didn't continue.

I don't think anyone said it was...

You need to hop on twitter (on second thought...). "Star Wars finally giving us something different" is a big talking point for many.

If you're nitpicking at this close a level, then I'm not sure if these types of action movies are for you.

I reluctantly agree with this statement, but there are so many big budget / franchise action movies that I do like (Logan, The Dark Knight, Spider-Man Homecoming, Deadpool, Captain America: Winter Soldier, The Force Awakens) that I kind of have to wade through the stuff I won't like to see the ones I will like.

[El Bastarde]

Aside from continuing Rey's coming of age story, it is very difficult to tell where they are going.

It is? Ren's in charge of the Last Order and Rey's going to oppose him and we get some final battle...and I'm sure they'll have a few struggles tossed in like the "slow ship chase" that TLJ centered over. I'm sure the "Resistance" will have beefed up their membership after the last movie and that will be done "off screen" in the time between the two movies. No need to bear us down with details...we just assume that the planets of the Republic finally get them some backup.

We really don't know how big the First Order is.

This has never mattered at all. The idea of how the First Order is so big in the first place is hard to wrap your head around in the first place so I don't think they'll be covering this. They're as big as the movies need them to be and once the top guys get beaten, I'm sure it'll crumble away to nothing like how the Empire did.

We did see a schism between Kylo Ren and Hux start to open

That's been there since the first movie. But I think it's clear Ren terrifies Hux so I doubt he'll do anything. He'll get a nice satisfying death.

It was funny. I'm just not a fan of the extreme buffoonery / ineptitude of a main villain (now second in command of the First Order) being what saved the rebellion.

Well he is and it's been done a number of times. And I don't think it matters since he's not the big-bad anyway. Of course nothing to do with his buffoonery "saved" the rebellion so I don't know what that means.

You need to hop on twitter (on second thought...). "Star Wars finally giving us something different" is a big talking point for many.

I would suggest you hop OFF Twitter and maybe see what normal people who are above the age of 20 have to say...my opinion of Twitter rantings couldn't be lower. And I'd agree that TLJ DID give us something different in TLJ...it's the first time I felt ANY of these movies was trying break away from the nostalgia death-spiral of the original tilogy. But just because we say that doesn't mean that we don't recognize a few of the beats in TLJ being similar to Empire and RotJ. It's just there was much less and the movie ended up in a different place than those movies, unlike how TFA seemed to start, continue and end exactly like ANH.

I reluctantly agree with this statement, but there are so many big budget / franchise action movies that I do like (Logan, The Dark Knight, Spider-Man Homecoming, Deadpool, Captain America: Winter Soldier, The Force Awakens)

But are you REALLY expecting as much from those movies as you are from the latest Star Wars entry? It's the same genre of movie but no one asks all these nitpicky questions about something like Deadpool. Star Wars diehards just expect too much of these movies and they'll never get it.