OKP Therapy Thread

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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby hosemasterflex » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:12 am

Sad and true. P-Y tells it like it is.

I would probably not have the balls, honestly. I have such a creature living with me currently, but it's my own offspring which complicates that.

But yeah, why come here looking for how to cope with the problem rather than defeat it? Defeat that problem man.

My father said to me once, and I'm paraphrasing, ... Don't let people become your problem. Be bold and become THEIR problem when they wanna be like that.

PS you don't sound like a dick, shit's got to be alphabetized by somebody, yo
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby Katiemay » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:37 pm

That's a shitty situation, Drew. And you just moved in recently, so you and the other roommates probably haven't even gotten a feel for each other. I agree with him needing to go, and sooner than later. Speak to the other roomies and form a united front.

I have never lived with roommates. It must be a non-stop balancing act.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby Brother » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:44 pm

Katie, I can balance the other guys because I've known them for years and have lived very closely if not as true roommates, but of course there are still things to get used to. This guy was just kinda plopped on me. I've lived with roommates forever, whether my 3 siblings or whatever.

Kevin, thanks for the wisdom from your father. Sounds like something my pops would tell me. And I was seeking coping advice because I just care too much and this goes through many aspects of my life. As a side note I struggle with this dilemma all the time. I care too much and I like to do things the "right" way, and this stresses me out sometimes, but like, the alternative is to be a person who doesn't care! Definitely less anxiety and annoyance but like, who wants to live like that??

Pei-Yi's, that is a good method. Hopefully I was clear that he DOESN'T kick down doors or do really horrible. He's just a fuckin' idiot, lol. I just really hate to have to tell a 26 year old things that I don't even have to tell my little brother. Thanks for listening y'all.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby AsianGirl » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Drew, empathy and compassion are two of your very special qualities.

But not everyone deserves your empathy and compassion. Wart of a human soon-to-be ex-roommate, he needs TO GO.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby GratefulPhish » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:21 pm

Yeah Drew, I was gonna ask how old the dude is cause that makes a difference to me. I blew up on my roommate a couple days ago for a lot of the same reasons, but I'm really just trying to find a way to make living with someone work. He wasn't plopped down on me or anything, and I kinda got the feeling he was gonna be a lazy stoner but I had hopes of otherwise. Anyways, he's 22 so I felt like I could change him for the better, hopefully be a good influence on him cause it's obvious he needs someone to let him know it's not ok to just get high all day and do whatever you want with a blatant disregard for your roommates. Anyways he's been better the past few days, hopefully it sticks. But yeah, I think there's a huge difference between the two situations, so I don't know how much my method would work for you.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby henrietta » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:00 pm

Tell it like it is, Drew. I have never minded being an asshole and speaking my piece. :twisted:
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby fone » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:43 pm

Sound advice here. Speaking your mind without emotion, as honestly as you see things, will let your friend and his brother know your position such that they can choose what to do.

Unfortunately, if they choose to ignore your concerns, unless you have the upper hand legally in the living arrangements, you'll have no recourse to make them do anything. The situation will become more emotionally untenable until you're forced to retreat into your own space constantly, or find other arrangements.

It's tough living with others. I often think whether I would be able to live with my own kids after all this time since they've established their own lifestyles, and the answer would be definitely not. We could live in the same building, but only if we had our own "apartments", and that's just the way it is. Doesn't mean I love them any less. Just means I wouldn't want to kill them for not putting their dishes in the dishwasher.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby El Bastarde » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:46 pm

^The best arrangements I've seen with older guys who are still stuck with their parents is they often have a whole section of the house (usually the basement) that's for just themselves. Even with them together, both the parents and kid have "away time" from each other so they don't drive each other crazy. It's usually the best way to do it.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby ladyphish » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:54 pm

^^Fone's final sentence describes my whole marriage :thumbup:

Before I met Holt I hadn't had a roommate in probably 8 years and even after 6 years together, I still haven't adjusted to living with him very well. It's probably the biggest stressor for me. I was a good roommate once upon a time, but now that I'm set in my ways and like things how and where I like them, I'm no good at having that interrupted...even when it's well-meaning or done to "help". You're a brave soul for not only taking on a roommate, but MULTIPLE roommates. I'd seriously be in the depths of hell in that situation. Hope it all works out!
I've been doing this a long time and have seen lots of changes most of which I can't fucking stand...but I still go anyway because I'm there for the MUSIC and so I tolerate all that other bullshit because I DO get the point. So there :-)
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby Phinst » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:47 pm

Thought this was pretty cool and thought this may be the thread to post it. obviously some song quotes are taken out of context to mean things they don't necessarily mean, but they did a pretty good job

51 of the Most Important Life Lessons Learned from Phish

http://www.thecapitoltheatre.com/2015/09/30/51-of-the-most-important-life-lessons-learned-from-phish/
...Dip a ladle for a taste of her creation...& she knew that what she made...
would be the Finest in the Nation....

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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby fone » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:48 pm

One of my oldest and dearest friends, one I've known since we were in college together at 18, just lost his eldest son to a heroin overdose, and I am so insanely angry at the moment over the pointlessness of it all.

Fuck heroin, ya know. Damn it to the bowels of hell. I curse all of the shit bags in the supply chain that bring it to this country to addict the children of good people who have some issues finding themselves. Fuck it.

Please, please keep your children close and don't let them flounder in despair and uncertainty. Even that's no guarantee, but never give up. My friend and his wife never gave up. They helped Chris get all kinds of help, and yet he still fell into heroin's cursed allure. Fuck it, fuck it.

I apologize to you all, but I'm really upset at the moment and I know you'll understand.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby AsianGirl » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:53 pm

Sorry to hear that Bill; my condolences to you and your good friend.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby GratefulPhish » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:51 pm

^^ truly sorry Bill, there really are no words. Being close to someone with an addiction is extremely hard. I can't imagine being the parents of someone in that place.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby hosemasterflex » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:04 am

I'm so sorry Bill, that's just such a weird dark reality of life: f&ckin heroin. Thank you for sharing, it's important to be reminded to be vigilant. Having trouble keeping my kids close these days. I worry about shit like this.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby Brother » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:14 pm

I'm sorry to hear this, Bill. You don't have to censor your anger and sadness here. My best wishes to you and the family. There is a heroin epidemic in my old town, and a kid I knew from middle school just got locked up for selling badly cut stuff that killed people. Pointless indeed.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby fone » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:23 pm

^^ Grab em and hug the shit out of them, Kevin. Screw what Big D said, and let them see you cry. Better yet, have a big cry together with them, and they'll realize how much you and they are really alike. Sometimes that's all they really want to know.

^I actually feel badly for the dopey kids who get sucked into selling this shit, especially after the deaths begin to happen. Some of them are not bad people. They're just not fully baked and can't see the interrelationship of us all. Pointless indeed.


Thanks for all the kind thoughts, but the sorrow is really on my friends and their family. I hardly knew Chris, so his loss to me is negligible. My feelings are of frustration because I cannot help my friends feel this event any less especially when I know in my heart that they have to feel every torturous bit of it in order to realize closure at some point.

Marie and I are poised to drive up to where they live whenever they need us. I've expressed that offer to him this morning and his thanks was heartfelt, but brief.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby Katiemay » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:27 pm

One of my best friends' mom was an addict and on methadone and used to abuse both it and heroin. She would buy urine from the one in our group who didn't smoke because she needed to be tested regularly to stay on the 'done program. This was during our teen years. She was like living with an extreme bipolar personality. The days where she went to pick up her weeks supply of methadone, she would be crazy energetic, chatty, cleaning, cooking, shopping, funny and joking. Then the last 3 days of the week before she went back, she just slept on the couch in the dark. It was just her and her son. He lived like that most of his life. She worked sometimes, then not at all. They moved a lot. She was in and out of jail for stealing from stores. They never had money and often no food. She declined throughout his youth and then declined further until he came home to find her dead after i dropped him off one night.

When I was in my early 20s, after witnessing what this woman and her son went through, about 3/4 of my friends became addicted to heroin and it pretty much ruined all their lives. They had started doing it secretly and by the time I knew, when they acted like they were just "trying" it, they were already addicts. It took me a long time to get past that. One, that they lied and hid it (these were my closest core group of friends) and two that they should have known better after knowing Poopsie (our friend's mom). A few years later, the son himself got into it and and ended up in jail for awhile for stealing from our friends to fund his addiction. Hes actually doing pretty well now. He has been sober for many years.

So, long story long, I have witnessed heroin end, or fuck up, many lives. And unfortunately, that's not all of it. I hate that fucking shit. Hate it.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby ladyphish » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:11 pm

I've known a few seemingly unlikely addicts. It can really grab anybody, it seems :-(
I've been doing this a long time and have seen lots of changes most of which I can't fucking stand...but I still go anyway because I'm there for the MUSIC and so I tolerate all that other bullshit because I DO get the point. So there :-)
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby hosemasterflex » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:32 am

:shock: I studied ^^that post. Thank you for sharing that Katiemay. As a parent, that's the sh!t that scares me.

Although as someone who at one time may have consider himself relatively enlightened, I find life generally terrifying so I'm not so certain I'm really saying anything here.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby El Bastarde » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:51 pm

Fuck heroin, ya know. Damn it to the bowels of hell. I curse all of the shit bags in the supply chain that bring it to this country to addict the children of good people who have some issues finding themselves. Fuck it.

I kinda don’t feel right to think this way. Yes, heroin is much worse than weed, but marijuana is a similarly addicting drug that affects your life in the same way…it’s just not as lethal. If I did heroin as much as I’ve done weed, I’d be dead. So I kinda have a hard time at being a pothead and ripping on another drug. All drugs work the same way and affect your brain in similar ways. It's really about circumstance that some of us took one and not the other.

There’s not a lot of difference between them accept for lethality. Sure, they’re on heroin due to maybe some issues they want to escape from…but is weed so different? Aren’t many using it for the same reason and telling themselves it’s for other reasons? It’s worth considering…

One, that they lied and hid it (these were my closest core group of friends) and two that they should have known better after knowing Poopsie

It rarely works that way. Everyone who does it says “That won’t be me” and convince themselves they’re different or smarter or that they can drop it when they want. It’s all the drug talking. It’s funny how addicts all seem to end up having kinda the same personality and think in the same patterns.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby phishinsky » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:09 am

:thumbdown: sorry Bill...
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby fone » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:08 pm

Thanks Ryan. Tuesday's service wasn't fun at all. But it was nice to see so many of his and his siblings' friends respectfully attending the service. Had to have pleased the family to see such support.

Found out two things about young Chris that I had not previously known. There was only a memorial service because Chris was an organ donor, something I found truly commendable. Also discovered his addiction was influenced by ongoing developmental issues. He was classified as 'developmentally delayed" in his teens and had participated in various programs since then. It did not stop him from getting his bachelors in music. He was Dead fan.

^^Steve, I'm not entirely sure, but I don't believe that marijuana causes the physical addictions that heroin does. I think nicotine and alcohol addiction is closer to heroin than marijuana is, but I would need to read up more on this assumption. I just never had any issues with the stuff. Even at the peak of my involvement when we lived by the motto, 'anything worth doing is worth doing stoned', if we didn't have any, we just lived our lives without it. We always understood that 'high' was never supposed to be a permanent state, just another fun aspect of the dance.

Waiting for my friend to let me know whether he wants some company tomorrow from myself and another close friend who has come east from CA for a visit. Leaving it all up to him, although he did say that the memorial on Tuesday did help keep him from dwelling on his loss.

So I may be playing some golf tomorrow, or just walking around Bear Mountain Park, or sitting in some gin mill with a couple of people I've known and loved for almost 50 years. I very proud of my friendships because I believe I chose wisely. This circle of friends can move in and out of each other's lives, not seeing one another for long periods of time, with the ability to comfortably pick up wherever we left off with one another with the same love and trust.

One of the most fortunate aspects of my life.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby El Bastarde » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:11 pm

Thanks Ryan. Tuesday's service wasn't fun at all.

Allow me to just say I hate funerals...mostly the ritual of it. I mean, it’s not enough that your loved one dies and you’re sad and despondant and don’t want to talk to anyone. No, that’s not enough. You first have to go to a church and possibly sit in a room with your loved one’s dead corpse sitting in a box in the room (at least that service didn’t do this)…it’s not enough that the person is dead…you have to be reminded of his fact by staring at their dead body.

But, oh no, that’s not enough either. You then have to jump in a car and drive to a gravesite. And just in case the reality hasn’t quite hit, you get to watch them be lowered into a fricking hole in the ground just to emphasize the fact that you’ll never see this person again. I find this entire ritual to be horrible and awful and feels like it’s just revelling in death and negativity. Like you’re not sad enough that the person died…you still have to follow some strange social graces and go through this entire nonsense as well simply because people thousands of years ago decided this is how it should be done. I detest funerals for this reason…it like tradition itself is twisting the knife in what is already a gaping wound.

When I die, I’m getting cremated or giving myself to science and my “funeral” will involve people hitting a local bar to have some drinks and maybe chat about what a weirdo I was. If it’s about remembering and honoring the person who died, then I see no better way than celebrating their life. This allows you to still surround yourself with friends and family to make you feel better but to not revel in such sadness while doing it. No way am I putting my family though that.

^^Steve, I'm not entirely sure, but I don't believe that marijuana causes the physical addictions that heroin does.

Oh, you’re certainly right there. I guess I’m talking about the mental part of it. The effect is still generally the same thing where it’s a drug that puts you in a happier mood and maybe taken to escape stress or whatever…it’s just that heroin is a bit more powerful. I guess I just don’t like looking down on that drug when, in a mental sense, it’s pretty much the same as weed or any other drug. I also find it a bit weird when weed users look down on the use of other drugs…it’s still the same pattern…potheads aren’t better than any other addict.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby Brother » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:37 pm

I'm fascinated by death rituals. We've had them as long as we've been dying. The roots of shamanism are in hunting and death rituals. I am also the grandchild of immigrants, and in our community, some people are more traditional than others.

A traditional Assyrian/Chaldean funeral is quite an ordeal. If my dad died, everyone would come to my house and usually they would bring food. Someone brought an entire roast lamb on a platter with yellow rice to my grandpa's funeral. However, no sweets or alcohol is consumed because you are not celebrating, you're mourning. Contrast this with an Irish funeral I went to a few years back...I left feeling guilty that I had such a good time.

Then at the funeral home the men and women sit on separate sides and stand or sit in a line and you kiss everyone. THEN THE "CRYING LADIES" COME. They sing or chant in Aramaic and the things they are saying are like, "he will never hold his children again", "his wife will never kiss him again", and other sad things that help you cry. The main idea is to get the grief out; don't hold onto it; be horrrrrribly sad today, so sad you can never be sad again. In fact, it's tradition for women to wail and moan, and beat themselves while tearing grass from the earth to show their grief. Just get it allll out.

It doesn't end there though. Seven days later you have another meal and everyone comes over and is up in your grieving business. This meal is called..."Seven". Then there is another event forty days later called...you guessed it, "Forty". That ends the grieving, but widows sometimes wear black for a year or even the rest of their life. It's old school, and those traditions are dying out but we're getting a lot of refugees so there might be a resurgence of the more traditional rites.
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Re: OKP Therapy Thread

Postby GratefulPhish » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:38 pm

I pretty much agree with The Bastard. I mention in a thread recently living with an uber pothead, and how gross it is. He's gotten better since I confronted him, but he is definitely addicted to some aspect of it, no doubt about that. Since living with him I've learned that his brother is a recovering alcoholic and it is so apparent to me that he thinks that smoking pot all day is laughable in comparison to being drunk. Well when confronted him I told him that I saw no difference in the two lifestyles. I didn't think about his brother at the time and that obviously hurt his feelings some, but someone needed to say it. His goal when smoking pot is to get as high as possible every time, and how he can't see how that is no different is absolutely beyond me (at least once you get past the early stages of discovering pot).

Then there's the whole thing about his outlook on life that just goes hand in hand with him being stoned to the gills all the time. He's incredibly disillusioned and wants to just block out anything bad or sad going on in the world, I don't even think he will watch fictional dramas anymore. I just can't imagine going through life trying to censor yourself like that. I know life can be overwhelming and confusing, but this is most definitely an outlook I have never come across before. I gotta believe he's gonna have a real hard time adjusting after/if he graduates from college.
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