Anyone else feel that 12-7-97 is overrated?

Phish Live Shows
#1

dont get me wrong, i like this show a bunch, but it is not as consistent as many other shows on the Fall tour.
IMO, there are alot of highlights, but i would rather listen to a show that is solid all the way through.
obvious highlights…
ACDC>Psycho>Jesus i must have heard this 100 times.
Theme. Great jam section.
Tube>Jam>Slave. this tube is funky.no doubt about it.but i do give 12-29-97 the honor of top tube, with Dayton coming in second.

now, the second set is really disjointed, IMO.
i understand that Boogie On was a HUGE kickdown, but i feel like it wasnt really played all that well.the lyrics are pretty botched and the jam section just kinda sputters out.

this is how i always felt about this show, despite all the love it gets.
whatcha think?
a

#2

Obviously, the main reason it gets so much praise is the first set. And its well deserved. AC/DC->Psycho->JJLC is one of the coolest sections of Phish EVER. No doubt. The other highlights you mentioned are spot on, but I think the entire set is a highlight. Its perfectly balanced, and there’s not one note played that feels out of place. MMGAMOIO is a great bluegrass tune with perfect placement, and Ice->Steep->Ice is executed flawlessly. I like versions of Ice after 95 a lot more, because it became more of a rare treat. Its Ice became too standard in 94 and 95 imo.

When people say this show is epic, they are probably thinking about the first set.

This show is a case of Phish setting the bar too high in the first set! I mean, what could they have done in the second set to match the first? I’ve only listened to the second set once or twice, while I’ve had disc 1 in my cd player at least 50 times.

So, yes, it is overrated as an entire show.

#3

I’ve listened to this show way too many times.

It was one of the first shows I ever had, so obviously it got a lot of play years ago.

It was my favorite for a long time.

Once you dig deeper into the cannon, you realize there are shows as good and better, in my opinion.

#4

definitely.
my tape of this first set was a fixture in my car’s tape deck back in 97 and 98.not only is the set itself great, but the source that circulated was about as perfect as it got.
still is one of my favorite sounding sources to this day.
and btw, it is this source that we are going to be seeding tonight as part of the Fall re-seeds.
DFOB Nuemann KM140 > Buyer MV100 > SBM-1DAT (44.1) > Montego II
a

#5

I won’t call this show overrated. I won’t do it.

I will, however, call the first set “Slave to the Traffic Light” my favorite version ever.

#6

I agree that the first set is money, but there is definately a better ACDC Bag this tour 11/21…The -> Psycho Killer -> JJLC is great and makes this a great show, as well as the Tube being very cutting edge.

I agree that this show is overrated on the basis that none of the songs in the second set are even the best of the tour, let alone best ever. I listen to the first set a lot and play it for almost anybody who is willing to listen, but if I want to show them great second set jams that make '97 phunk what '97 phunk is, I play 'em 11/21 or 11/22, which are through and through much more solid shows.

Anyway…I agree it’s overrated, just in the sense that a lot of people think that it is the best show ever, which it is not, and not even close to being.

#7

i wouldnt call this show necessairly overrated because i think people realize that its really the first set that they are talking about. the second set is not bad by any means…but it just does not flow all that well in the grand scheme of things. i have never been a big fan of timber…i dont recall the wolfmans being outstanding, pretty short actually…the reba jam has some higlights with a really cool YEM tease at like 11:20…guyute…meh…not great placement…the second set just kidnve “fizzles out” to steal from the other thread. nevertheless, the first set alone makes this show…likely my favorite tube, obviously the acdc->physco->jesus…the its ice sandwich is my favorite its ice ever. period. and of course the slave is quite nice

#8

i listened to this show today.
i made a nice matrix of the DFOB and LP release.
anyway, i feel that ice, after the swept>steep, is botched horribly.
moreso than i remembered it being.
spooks, you mention that this show might contain your fav tube and ice…
just curious, have you heard the 12-29-97 tube or the Ice from 9-20?
not to sway you from your opinion, but personally, i like them better than these.
hell, most of my all-time favorite versions of songs are nowhere near people’s top 10!
a

#9

THIS is precisely why this board exists.

#10

dude mang…they didn’t even play a show on 9/20/97…

But I agree that this Tube is not the best, it’s just the first real jammed out one. The 11/2/98 Tube is way stronger in my opinion. Actually I like the whole Tube -> Drowned -> JJLC 11/2/98 opener better than this shows opener.

#11

oops…
9-20-00.
have you heard the 12-29-97 tube?
i could up it if anyone is interested.
a

#12

agreed 110%

solid show, but very overrated.

#13

See the Fall 97 thread for my thoughts.

#14

Everyone here says that show is overrated. How can it be overrated of nobody really “overrates” it.

#15

in a word, yes. but, wait, no. i am so undecided on this matter. the first set more than makes up for the second. if pressed i would say yes overated. wait, maybe not.

#16

well, on its anniversary, i felt thought that i might “test the waters” to see how ppl on this board felt about it, since most reviewers either deem it legendary or epic.
i’m new here, but not to the scene…
i was just trying to provoke a little conversation.
sorry i didnt do my research.
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#17

I was by no means trying to discredit the merit of this thread, just stating something I found myself asking during the course of reading this thread.

#18

We only represent a small fraction of the Phish fanbase, so just because all of us think it’s overrated doesn’t mean that it isn’t.

#19

word. 12/7/97 is being seeded righ tnow over at etree and nobody has said anythign but positive things about the second set

#20

I love this show top to bottom. It may not be “perfect”, but it is stellar. No doubt.