Bar 17: What Say You?

Non-Phish Phish Band Members
#21

I’m only through the first six songs and I have mixed feelings about it so far. The guy is still a freaking musical genius, but one without a voice, without a sense of melodies that matter, and unwilling to fine tune the engineering process of his studio work (although this one is better than some of his previous stuff). That being said, most of these tunes will probably soar in concert with the right mix of musicians.

Speaking of musicians, did it strike anyone else odd that the list of musicians on the album included almost everyone in Trey’s group of friends except one?

#22

I think everyone overreacts about these Trey albums. Its Trey, people. He’s not a famous songwriter…most all of the lyrics that he writes on his own are going to have a cheesy and bland tilt to them. Its the same way with a lot of famous musicians. Listen to lyrics written by Cat Stevens and Neil Young…they are not genious lyrics, full of fruitful metaphors and deep symbols. They are simple songs with simple messages. The only reallly good phish lyrics are at least in part written by Mike and especially Tom. I’m not saying that’s a super-important part of phish, but we’ve got to be realistic. Trey is not an excellent lyricist. He is a guitar player and a leader.

As far as the music goes…Trey is phish. Simply put. Trey on his own is a rock guitar player with a soft side to him. He’s not going to write music like he did with phish in the later years, and he is certainly not going to revert back to writing compositions. Anything he does on his own is not going to be nearly as effective and meaningful as phish…that doesn’t mean it sucks, but lets have some perspective here.

I just don’t know what everyone expects out of Trey as far as producing an album with 4-minute songs. Trey, to me=Jam. I could care less about what he puts out there album-wise. Seeing Trey live is experiencing Trey, not hearing his latest songs. Even if he is on stage trying to lead a band of less-talented musicians, good things happen…and its not during the chorus to his newest song. Don’t try to be inspired or look deeply into these studio efforts people!

Of course, all of this points to why people want phish back. The 21 years they spent together formed a bond…it made each musician who they are today. Trey knows this. I’m not bashing his solo career, I mean, what else is he going to do until phish comes back? It boils down to expectations…and I think many of us have too high of expectations for studio albums.

#23

I think it’s strange that everyone wants Phish back so bad … at least when it comes to the new songs thing.

I could get creamed for this, but I’m really not that into the writing that came after Rift. I totally love the songs they wrote while they were relative unknowns … but starting with Hoist, every single album has left me feeling like, “What happened to the genius writing?”

Billy Breathes, Ghost, Farmhouse … they’re good albums in their own right. But to me it’s average songwriting at best (with exceptions - I love Back on the Train, Piper, Waves), and accepting it for what it is, well, that’s harder than it sounds.

So my point is that reforming Phish isn’t necessarily going to result in better material from Trey.

I love Trey and all, but what I loved best was that sense of important melody (as fone sez) and the ability to make really interesting and exciting recordings.

FWIW I think Trey’s written some great lyrics too. Look at YEM (yes, I’m serious) and Esther. And Lizards & Forbin’s! But that’s 20 years ago that he wrote those …

I kind of hold onto the hope that clean living will bring out the best in Trey again someday.

#24

The complexity and the songwriting of the early years is gone…long gone. You can see it in the progression of the Phish albums as well after Rift, like you said. Reverting back to that would be stupid and probably impossible, and not reverting back has led to cheesy, straight-forward rock music (from Trey). The only happy medium for Trey that I see is Phish writing new music, and continuing to jam. New phish songs are not going to have the complexity of Junta, but they also won’t have the Trey-by-himself cheesy feel to them either. The best example is Round Room. I like that album a lot for the most part. I think parts of it are a little slow, but the Tom-influenced lyrics and the talents of Fish, Mike, and Page (and the undeniable connection they have) make the songs meaningful, to me at least. 7below, PebblesMarbles, WOTC, Waves…all of these songs are musically cool, lyrically cool, and they offer room for jamming.

but until we do get phish back, I think it is pointless to dissect these Trey albums with so many expectations.

I personally want phish back for the jams. That is seriously all I care about.

#25

it’s ALL about the JAMS!!! :wink:

#26

^Not for all of us … I like the jams, but it is not the highlight of Phish’s good points for me.

I really value songwriting & composition, and especially studio recording … improv is great, but as much as it’s freeing, it’s also limiting.

That’s another reason I like old shows … the jams were still great, but generally shorter … more songs per show, and better songs!

I realize I’m probably the exception there.

#27

Obviously its more than going on stage and starting a two hour jam. Notice my comments on Round Room. I like those songs and the lyrics!! But the jams and variations that happen afterwards and within the songs are more important to me.

#28

No, I understood that … I was just painting an exaggeration to illustrate my point. I realize people value the tunes, or this thread wouldn’t be here.

I like Round Room quite a lot myself. But -7, for example, is way more about the song’s origin than it is about which performance’s jam I enjoy most. The melody, lyrics, harmony and arrangement are just more interesting to me.

So I guess I’m saying that it really does matter to me what kind of songs are coming from these guys today. Bar 17 included. Maybe I’m overly critical, but I only mean to discern what I like from what I don’t.

Loved Rift … don’t love Billy Breathes.

Knah’mean?

#29

i feel ya hose.

my stating is ALL about the jams is a bit of an overstatement as well (my name is jamphandan, don’t wear it out).

i do care about the songwriting and the melodies/structure/chorus/etc. and that stuff is part of why i love phish. a big part.

but to me there’s no comparison (to anything really…) as being there, feeling that moment where you(band+aud)'re riding that wave to fuck knows where.

#30

Arguments about ‘who cares about Trey’s albums, he still rips live’ are MOOT when he fills his band with hacks and faceless session players. TAB worked because they knew how to play and improvise. 70 Volt Parade is a fucking joke to me, even with the laydeez and some of the hornz.

#31

great point

#32

the singing kills it for me. it’s pretty bad. several points during both bar17 and 18 steps i was just hoping the song would end soon. i tried very hard to be open to whatever trey was going to put out and i left dissapointed. the lyrics are bad, the singing is worse, and a lot of the song writing seems very similar. same fingerpicking style on many of the songs. listen, i love trey and phish and am going to see him both nights in chicago, but when something is not up to par it has to be said.

#33

This to me may just be Trey’s weakest solo album…IMO

A few decent tracks. Goodbye Head and Cincinnati were always my two fav songs on the album.

Funny to read some of the above criticisms about his vocals/lyrics even back here in '06.

#34

Nice bump! I have a few Trey albums, but in general he’s the epitome of the artist that decided he hates what I love, and will no longer participate in that shit. So I’m a frustrated Trey fan … who is stuck in the past, probably. Or doesn’t appreciate the sick jaaaaamms man.

I have Surrender to the Air, One Man’s Trash, Original Boardwalk Style & The Horseshoe Curve.

My favorite is Horseshoe Curve, by far. Very funky and has a sort of mystique goin on. Hardly any lyrics; probably a big plus, given the complaints about his other records.

I truly don’t get what’s happened to this guy’s sensibilities when it comes to what constitutes cool music.

#35

It’s been forever since I listened to this album, but I do remember Goodbye Head is an amazing song. I saw TAB play it the first time I saw them.

#36

but I do remember Goodbye Head is an amazing song. I saw TAB play it the first time I saw them.

I remember being blown away when he played it and a massive glowstick war started…I didn’t even know people still did those at the time. It was impressive and Trey looked a lil terrified since he was so close to it.

Kinda hot and cold with Bar 17. Some good songs, some meh songs. Been a while since I’ve really listened to it which may be a commentary on how much I liked it.

The best Trey stuff in my opinion is his Self-titled Album, Shine and Traveler. I dig Horseshoe Curve too but I see it as less of an “album” and more of just a jam session. It’s good stuff though.

Or doesn’t appreciate the sick jaaaaamms man.

Yeah, what the hell, dooood!?