Creationism vs. Natural Selection

Non-Phish General
#16

Were they ever here at all? And they keep on dancin’…

Profound statement by the Bobby Weir… profound indeedo.

Meaning is all this panorama of the phenomenal perceived objects by the senses truly here or just appear to be here? This is the central theme to Buddhist philosophy which rejects things being truly existent. They are mere projections of mind, totally empty of any true existence whatsoever… but things appear as solid and real. They are empty while appearing… at the same time. Its our mind that makes things solid. Perceives things as created or destroyed. It is like a dream, vivid appearance but no one can find the dream. Such is life… we can never hold on. So nothing was ever created. And things appear to evolve. But its really empty open space in which all things can appear and vanish.

Hows that?

But this is just philosophy and not experience. Just words and not knowledge.

#17

the octopus

it’s as if they are all tapped into the same source, it’s really special when these guys hit that mark where though four people are playing it seems to be coming from one source

not many bands can achieve this on as a consistent basis as Phish did, i think MMW does a pretty good job, tho i liked it more with Sco, that shit was tits

#18

lol at ppl actually voting for creationism

it’s time for sterilization folks

#19

What cracks me up is how creationism and natural selection are NOT mutually exclusive. That’s why it drives me nuts that religious people don’t even want natural selection (which HAS been all-but-proven to happen) to be taught. While we know that animals evolve, scientists have never been able to pinpoint where life started. Whether you believe that all life started with all sorts of amoebas crawling out of some random cesspool, there has never been anything proven about where the cesspool came from.

So in theory, you could say that some sort of God DID create life on Earth. And then go on to say that the small life that put here then evolved into what we are now via natural selection. You could actually vote for both in this poll and not be wrong.

Stevo

#20

^

yeah i’ve always wondered why it was impossible to believe that maybe the big bang was “the creation” and evolution is the natural process of it. seems reasonable to me.

#21

I strongly believe the last two theories. That this whole evolution and natural selection process, and everything else was created and designed. In a very genious and absolute beautiful way, at that. I don’t see how anyone could be completly one-sided about it.

#22

a little bit of both??? lol. you all are way too naive.

here is why i say there is no ‘intelligent designer’ behind life, the stars, sun, and all of that stuff. think about our lives here on earth and the overall ‘bigness’ of everything. now, think about how gigantic the galaxy will live in is. now, think about the infinity that exists beyond our galaxy.

once you wrap your mind around this concept of how infinite the universe really is, it’s really hard to post an argument that ‘god’ created the universe. the more i think about it, the more i realize that in all likelihood this happened by accident. imo, if this really did happen by accident, that makes it 1000x more awesome than if some entity created it.

#23

^
But you do know that there are plenty of empirical facts that support ID, right?

#24

please cite. i could use a good laugh.

#25

Well, for starters:

If you really do think about the “bigness” of everything, it would argue against the fact that everything came to be by chance.

Also, from a purely scientific standpoint, think about how different life on planet earth would be if things such as gravity, the rotation of the earth, our axis, DNA, other planets, the sun, etc. were slightly altered. Life as we know it would cease to exist. Everything has to fall into place just right for us to be functioning exactly as we are today. Particularly anything dealing with molecules and DNA…the structure and sequence of those has to be in such a precise order for life as we know it today to exist.

William Paley’s watchmaker argument is one that is cited quite often. It essentially supports the above argument, stating that the complex inner-workings of a machine such as a watch necessitates some form of intelligent designer.

#26

^ People invented the watch, not god…it had an intelligent desingner, a person.

Regardless, why can’t we just say that God created evolution and that we have nothing to back this up, but we don’t have any better arguments either?

Believe what you want to believe, there is no proof of the origins of the universe, only theories based on some fairly enormous assumptions.

#27

What’s wrong with continually trying in vain to prove each other wrong all the time in the arena of unsolvable mystery?

:slight_smile:

#28

jesus fucking christ. the watchmaker argument? how about the bacterial flagellum argument while we are at it? these arguments have been disected and debunked by biologists time after time. and comparing a human being to a watch makes you extra fucking stupid.

read “Before the Dawn” by Nick Wade or never post again.

#29

furthermore, using the watchmaker argument demonstrates that you slept through biology class and your arguments are less than shit because you are using something overly-simplified to explain something very complex.

#30

jeez dude. simma down na.

#31

Yeah, fuck, for real.

I mean, obviously, having an open mind isn’t in your belief system, so it’s obviously pretty fucked if you ask me.

Fuck all that nonsense and negativity. We don’t need it around here. This was a friendly “debate”/conversation, but you ruined that, proletariat. Thanks. No one deserves to be called stupid for saying, “well, maybe this happened or this could be like this.” In fact, that’s why there’s wars about the stuff were talking about. I think that THAT is stupid.

What happened to the breeze 'round here?

#32

i realized that i got out of hand and i should edit my post. i am extremely passionate and i see much merit in the theory of evolution.

i apologize.

#33

I expect more breeze from a guy with a Chef Ramsey avatar.

#34

^I expect LESS breeze from a guy with a criminal bird avatar.

But back to the conversation, I also see much merit in the evolution theory. I mean, I don’t really even consider it a theory. It’s quite obvious. But what some, I think, were trying to say (including myself) is that it doesn’t go against the thought of someone/something putting all of these universi?/galaxies/planets/lifeforms here in some form or another that have changed and changed in an infinite process according to some great design. That’s my belief. It’s a big picture. I like it. I live by it.

I go outside on a beautiful day, watch the trees and life, hear a good tune in my head mixed with the sounds of nature, and think of how great life can be. I think about such wonderful “gifts” such as humor and freewill and I just know it. I feel it. Even if I tried to shake it, I couldn’t. Ever. It’s too good. Too intricate. That’s why I think I can see things both ways so easily.

#35

Luckily for you, since 4:48 pm yesterday I’ve:

  1. Found out who Nick Wade is
  2. Traveled to Barnes and Noble
  3. Purchased “Before the Dawn”
  4. Read the entire thing
  5. Pooped

I appreciate you letting me post again, kind sir. I also appreciate your kind thoughts on Paley’s arguments.