Dear President Obama:

Non-Phish General
#61

I work with an older nurse who was, get this, there when JFK got shot… she’s briefly in the video holding her then, 5y/o, son’s hand. I tell you this lady’s life reads like Forest Gump.

According to her Kennedy was a mob hit. Mob money helped him into office and then he crossed them once there… they took him out. Her story was very convincing with startling details… according to her the truth will come out one day but not till some people are long gone… its kinda a black smear on the whole Kennedy legacy.

In anycase, World Banks and Mobsters aside, there was a push in Congress to lend to sub-prime borrowers… that’s just what happened… and it led to the housing bubble that was the precursor to the rest of the mess… and that came from Clinton era democrats re-writing Freddie and Fanny.

In fact I got my house from a foreclosed Freddie Mac loan to a sub-prime borrower… at a damn good price… so I guess I have them to thank in a round about way… tho I’d never wish someone lose their house.

#62

^Bush tried to regulate Freddie and Fannie but couldn’t strike a deal with either party.

Bush pushed home-ownership like hell and I think it’s pretty clear that he thought getting people to buy houses was going to help the economy, with little concern as to whether or not they could actually afford one. Some quick examples would be the “Homeownership Challenge” and “The American Dream Down Payment Act”. In the America I lived in for the past 8 years home ownership was the first qualification to attaining the American Dream and the Prez was dying to sell houses to 5.5 million minority buyers!

#63

Clinton was the one who pushed home ownership to people who couldn’t afford homes, with the “Community Reinvestment Act”.

#64

I have no problem acknowledging that the Clinton and the Bush administration had the same policies.

This is a clear example of how the two parties do the same thing. In this instance one does it in the name of Community, one does it in the name of the American Dream. The American Dream Down Payment act was designed for people who couldn’t afford a down payment on a house but could afford mortgage payments. In the words or President Bush('s speechwriters):

“Many people are able to afford a monthly mortgage payment but are unable to make the downpayment, and so this legislation will authorize $200 million per year in downpayment assistance to at least 40,000 low- income families. These funds will help American families achieve their goals and, at the same time, strengthen our communities”.

I can’t afford a down payment on a house because I’m poor, even though mortgages where I live are cheaper than rent. I don’t look for money from the Government to buy things I can’t afford even if the President says it’s part of the American Dream.

I think conceptually, politically and economically this action yields similar results. Ideologically it falls into the territory of Government interfering with commerce, so if you really believe in the free market, this would be unacceptable.

The reason I bring this up is because the earlier post by Goldphish read to me like PR material that is misleading and illusory, and designed to maintain the power structure it pretends to criticize, ultimately leading to confusion in peoples’ minds. It is disinformation designed to manipulate people. People stop thinking and discussing reality and what’s really happening and start arguing with each other about which ideology is right and which one is wrong. I don’t think he is intentionally doing it, he’s just programmed to do it.

I disagree with the statement that the push by Congress was a result solely of Clinton policy, or of Democrats. This is a Government Policy.

WE are Reality, not the Government.

#65

You just confused this mind.

Thanks a lot.

I’ll just go plug in now and reboot myself. :frowning:

Actually you make a good point about arguing ideologies… something I can be guilty of and, to be honest, would rather steer away from… so I take your criticism, thank you.

#66

::marvels at informative and unique exchange; attempts to learn something from it::

#67

WOW, progress IS being made. The Oh KEE has come a long way

"The reason I bring this up is because the earlier post by Goldphish read to me like PR material that is misleading and illusory, and designed to maintain the power structure it pretends to criticize, ultimately leading to confusion in peoples’ minds. It is disinformation designed to manipulate people. People stop thinking and discussing reality and what’s really happening and start arguing with each other about which ideology is right and which one is wrong. I don’t think he is intentionally doing it, he’s just programmed to do it.
"

and this part of that post is SPOT ON!!!

#68

exactly. and WE are making a difference. we really, really are. some people may not see it yet, but i do.

#69

Man, I’m getting hammered from the left and the right!!

har har

I was trying to point out that Bush isn’t the only “evil” as the dems also had a big hand in this mess. Seeing how people so vehemently strike out against Bush I hope people don’t actually think the dems in power now are going to do much different.

But its true I was painting a black picture of the left while trying to make the right smell like roses.

That’s because I’m not goldphish but actually Sean Hannity. :slight_smile:

#70

This is true…The Chicago mob got Kennedy elected. JFK and RFK went after the mob and tried to break it’s holdings in Cuba. LBJ was involved also (It was in Dallas his home state and he benefited the most) due to his influence in oil and war ammunitions (Kennedy was going to pull out of Vietnam)… Way too much too break down in one post.

#71

For one, free market capitalism in itself DOES work. The problem is that the government and its corrupt ways often ruins it.

Take the mortage “crisis” thing we had going on. There didn’t need to be regulation to stop those banks from offering sub-prime loans to people. Why? Because the market itself is supposed to be a form of regulation. (And let’s not let these idiot consumers off the hook. You could tell just from watching the commercials that these sub-prime loans were a retarded idea. These people who fell for that crap got what they deserved. Whatever happened to “Buyer Beware”?)

How it’s supposed to work is that the companies give sub-prime loans. Eventually this blows up in their faces as, surprise, surprise tons of people who shouldn’t have gotten loans in the first place can’t pay those loans and eventually foreclose on the home. That leaves the banks with the debt. Now what is SUPPOSED to happen is those banks and loaners go belly-up. This leaves tons of market share for the smaller loaners and banks who have been doing business correctly all this time to take their spot in the market. The stupid decisions by these banks offering subprime loans is supposed to kill those banks. Not only does this serve as a lesson to those who may try it in the future, but as is with any free-market economy, there are always other business to take their place.

In addition, the CEOs and other scumbags who were behind this would either go down with the company or just be removed by their board of directors.

Left alone, this is how things WOULD have worked. There would have certainly been a rough period as the world adjusted to these companies going under, but it would figure out who the new players are and things would stabilize naturally. It’s happened many times in the past and we’ve all survived then. The problem was government has to meddle because they’re all in the pockets of these banks and loaners as it is. So instead of letting these banks die, they were given tons of cash to “save” them and many of their bad debts were purchased by the government. Also, since many CEOs are good buddies with government people and the very board of directors who hired them, they never get fired and often get “retention bonuses” regardless of performance.

So don’t blame free market economy for these problems. The concept itself is fine. It’s when government sticks their nose in it so they can take credit when things NATURALLY fix themselves that it all gets screwed up. These banks were supposed to have gone belly-up or at least learned their lesson. Instead they’re all still in business and haven’t learned a thing. Sadly, Greenspan’s biggest mistake was in having too much faith in the free market to straighten itself out. It wasn’t the government’s job to keep these subprime loans from being offered. It was the market itself that would take of that since bad business is supposed to result in bad consequences for your company. Thanks to the government’s meddling and corruption at most board of directors at these companies, none of that happened.

Stevo

#72

I was just repeating the cultural programming I received from reading Douglass Rushkoff, being poor, and information channeled from the light beings of Sirius while on LSD.

I personally agree with Stevo and would love to see this opportunity taken for the economy to self correct. I am poor and live in a small rural community so I am well prepared to deal with a worst case scenario economic collapse (I’m not saying that would happen). I think there are a lot of people who would as a result be unable to feed and house their families in a way they are used to and that is a powerful reality.

I personally looking towards a cooperative solution at a personal level.

#73

I hear that, about how true free market capitalism would have handled this better than this bailout plan.

But I can’t bring myself to get behind the idea that capitalism is a sound and fair concept. I see it as a flawed and unjust system, at least insofar as I’ve observed it in my own reality. It’s every man for himself, and it breeds dishonesty and greed and selfishness. And the dollar you get isn’t necessarily “earned” anyway. Plenty of good citizens bust their rump to make it and still can’t, while plenty more breeze thru on the wings of circumstance. Struggling farmers that can’t stay afloat vs. lucky bastard trustafarians who get to go to Hampton. You know what I’m sayin?

#74

I don’t think their is any belief system that will ensure mankind will be free from injustice. The only thing that will save people from injustice is love. Love for themselves and love for one another.

Dishonesty, greed and selfishness are problems people have regardless of whatever ideology they practice. People can’t help others unless they are stabilized themselves. If you look to a governing body to meet your needs, or the needs of your community, you are in a way being selfish since you are unwilling to accept responsibility for your own life.

If your society is suffering from an oppressive power structure, the power structure benefits from a population that believes the government is responsible for their happiness. If the population has surrendered their happiness to their government, they will accept a reality they believe to be unjust. If a population accepts the idea that their is an ideological solution to their unhappiness (dogma) they can be kept occupied with abstract arguments that will distract them from reality.

One thing the United States Government has been very successful at doing after the '60s counterculture movement is convincing people that the idea that love, communication, and awareness of the interconnectedness of human life and the environment that sustains it is crucial to a free society is a naive and unrealistic dream. It is a reality.

The reality is not that people are unhappy because their government is bad, they are unhappy because they have surrendered their happiness to their government.

This is just PR material from people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Eldridge Cleaver and other leaders who have led cultures of people out of oppressive situations, combined with information divined from Mescalin Ceremonies and Rosicrucian initiation rituals.

#75

PLEASE READ!!!, AWESOME points being made.

Ron Paul: Stimulus Packages Will Turn Recession Into A Depression
admin

Congressman warns that destruction of Dollar will compound

Texas Congressman Ron Paul has warned that passing the latest proposed economic stimulus package would be akin to pouring kerosene on an already raging fire.

Paul, who is also a member of the House Financial Services Committee, warned that such measures will cause a recession to turn into a full scale depression possibly worse than that of the 1930s.

During a Television interview with CNN, Paul explained why he believes stimulus funding is such a destructive policy.

#76

Egads! Whatsa meesa sayin’!?!

#77

Impeach Earl Warren

#78

Seriously tho that is a very good article by Ron Paul… makes sense.

#79

^Agreed! Scary though.

#80

Funny how that article states what most of us believed and stated back in tfp’s ‘financial crisis’ thread. Sometimes you just have to let dieing dogs die. It’s such a shame that most of our elected officials felt the need to take our money and spread it around to a bunch of corps that have failed policies. That is their problems and their clients problems, NOT MINE!!