Do you believe in god?

Non-Phish General
#126

Just some thoughts I wrote today:

Says Chuang Tzu:

Meditation is a grand integration; a harmony not only within oneself, but also in relation to all existence. In such a state, the self or the ego disappears.

The very nature of the ego is separation. If you look at a tree, if you observe a cat; they do not perceive themselves as separate from the whole. There is less struggle, less will to overcome; they are in harmony with everything around them.

The ego divides at all levels. I am a Christian, I am not Islamic; I am rich, I am not poor; I am a politician, I am not a spiritual man. At certain levels this is very gratifying, but you will find that the more you separate yourself, the more disjointed you are from everyone and everything surrounding you.

In meditation, everything comes together—all the pieces of the orchestra are playing in unison. It is not the body and mind—it is one. It is not the violin and the bass—they are all an integrated being.

Beyond that, you become in-tune with existence at all levels. The observer becomes the observed; the self disappears in the infinite vastness of the whole.

We cling to the ego, but it is the center of human suffering. There is far more misery among us than any other species. Other species experience natural impulses provoked by the physical senses—our egos not only create problems, but perpetuate them.

When we are born, we don’t have that separation. Our perception is pure; we have god’s eyes. A child is open, trusting, joyous, and free; but as one is conditioned by society, one is drawn closer and closer to the ego.

What the ego can never perceive is the inter-relatedness not only between all men, but life and existance at all levels. At the core of it, everything is derived from the same substance. The stars, the dust, the water and vegetation; it’s all intertwined. It’s one grand web of existence—and if you touch one part of the web, another part vibrates. If I touch the ground, I am touching the sky. If I fight with you, I am provoking violence amongst humans. The same energy is pulsating through everything—and that is god.

Perhaps our problem is that we cannot see the connection. We see ourselves as separate from everything else, and even further, we are full of divisions within ourselves. As long as this continues, mankind will become more disjointed. You will have countless sects under countless belief systems all in conflict with one another. It’s all because of the ego; the illusion of separation.

When you are free from the ego, you become in tune with existence and know a joy which is beyond measure and beyond all reason. This is god; true love.

#127

^ That’s an interesting concept. Maybe what some people know as “God” is the connection that runs through all of existence, not the ruler and creator of the universe. I’ve never really thought of God outside the common context of it. Not that I’m putting my beliefs in something different now, I just think it’s interesting.

#128

God is whatever you want it to be. I don’t really like calling it god, because of the judeo-christian connotation that comes along with that word. I call it the universe. But, whatever, there’s obviously something greater going on or we wouldn’t be walking around. I just hope to god it’s not really some dude on a cloud who gets pissed every time a man kisses a man or we drink beer on a Sunday. :unamused:

#129

Only when I ask for her help. :angel: :smiling_imp: :confused: :think: :silent:

#130

Should change your username to lifeboy357 then…

Swinging on the lifeline
Fraying bits of twine
Entangled in the remnants of the
Knot I left behind
And asking you to help me make it
Finally unwind

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don’t get a refund
If you overpray

And when the line is breaking
And when I’m near the end
When all the time spent leading
I’ve been following instead
When all my thoughts and memories are
Left hanging by a thread

God never listens…
Stranded on this slender string
The minutes seem to last a lifetime
Dangling here between the light above
And blue below that drags me down

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don’t get a refund
If you overpray

#131

Lifeboy 11/18/1994 changed my perpesctive on things a little bit.
I married a Catholic girl so it all works in the end. Boy does she scare the crap out of little Alex and myself.

Honestly though BUG357 would be more appropriate. I just don’t trouble myself with those types of issues. I do think Pascal’s wager was a load of poo though. To each thier own, live and let live, make your body a temple. I’ve got a kick ass life. I take full credit for it. My dad is a non-practicing jew who married an agnostic protestant that converted to Judaism to appease my Grandparents, while my wife was raised Catholic while her father was Shinto. My friends and I started a religion in 1991. It’s Rubarbianism. Maybe some other time though.

#132

you forgot about revivals :wink:

#133

certainly, from what I understand, there is no god. karma makes the world go 'round. what we need to understand is from as far back as far goes we have be going from one life to the next… and in each life we create actions which leave karmic imprints for future lives… negative acts leave imprints which arise as suffering and positive ones arise as happiness. these imprints are stored in the “all-base consciousness” that travels from life to life. imprints are never lost… they are either experienced or purified… in which case the experience is much less than fully ripened karma… and this is how suffering manifests… from bad acts in the past we may be born in the heart of suffering in africa or as an animal… from positive acts we may be born as a wealthy person or a prince. hell, to be born in america you had to have some pretty good karma… we have it good here…

we never get away with anything… even tho its seems like it… someone “gets away with murder”, it seems like that but the karmic imprint catches up to them next life or so. this is also why “bad things happen to good people” because this good person did something not so good in a past life.

see… i don’t talk about this sort of stuff much here but since you phishheads are always chatting up karma I thought I’d mention it :wink:

#134

first of all this is not a yes or no question.

in order to answer it properly first you have to define God, and I don’t think anybody can do that no matter how much they try to scare you into believing they can.

All we know is what we think. Knowledge is speculation and to prove that anything is real or not, first you have to define existence and reality, and who’s to say what’s ever really happening on a level we can really grasp.

That being said, I think somewhere along the lines of what marco was saying. And I think that the fatal flaw of mankind is that too many people think that they know when nobody really knows anything. We all just think. Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong. We are helpless clueless egos in our separate realities of each other.

So i guess i do believe in God, or at least i think I do, because there is so much intangible energy flowing through the universe that we know so little about, that there would almost have to be something connecting it all. Whether that something is an unseen force flowing through us all and our blessedness is only measured by how much we are willing to let it pass through us or whether that something is an old giant white man sitting on a cloud telling us that we shouldn’t be okay with two men making out but we should be totally fine with killing people we don’t understand on the other side of the planet. Who knows? Nobody.

I don’t think that the bible is God. I don’t think that anybody can define God. But I believe there is something connecting us all. We are a part of the universe.

But there is no universe. There is no Earth. There is no Phish. There is no New York City.

there is only…the Golden Eternity. :wave:

#135

^I agree with you

The inherit flaw of human logic or any system of thought is that a narrow, limited sphere cannot comprehend the whole. It is but a fragment of what it’s trying to grasp.

Even further, any system of thought will take certain things into account and disregard others; It will weigh things according to its values. So you have a limited sphere attempting to reach a conclusion on everything, which is narrowed further by the prejudice of its members. Even science isn’t immune to this tendency.

Because of this, I doubt we will ever have a unified theory which explains existence at all levels. We may come close - but there will always be some inconsistency with our logic; because the well frog cannot understand the ocean.

#136

Who says we’re all trying to grasp it?

I honestly do not give a fuck what we are or why we are here. Is that strange? I mean, I enjoy life. I appreciate the relationships I have with my family and the beautiful places I visit and the various forms of art that make the world great… but as far as why they exist, what made them, what their purpose in the grand scheme of things is… who cares?

I just lay back and enjoy the ride. The overall big picture is of no concern to me.

#137

i believe that the size of the universe, the existence of different galaxies, etc. kind of prove that there is probably no god. furthermore, i have a hard time differentiating between believing in god and vanity.

#138

Please don’t take anything I say personally, Dooj. My comment had nothing to do with you whatsoever. I am saying that any system of thought cannot explain the universe as a whole, because thought is a fragment of existence.

I’m glad to hear these questions are of no concern to you. To the vast majority of people on this planet, that is not so.

#139

While many religious leaders have and still do make such claims, it is not always the case. A famous Jewish mystic once said: “When you think you are close to God, that is when you are furthest away.”

The infinite, God, is ultimately completely disconnected from the finite, us. Part of the miracle of existence, as I see it, is that time offers us the chance to draw close to the infinite. Our souls (which may be shared by multiple people) are indeed partially infinite, yet only infinite in the positive direction. The supreme being, entirely beyond our grasp of understanding, exists in a realm of infinity that is outside of time. Yet the never ending progression of time proffers endless opportunity to further our understanding. This endless flow of time is the mechanism through which the finite can connect to the infinite. This connection and understanding must be experiential, as our intellects alone cannot grasp the infinite.

On another note: I think that a lot of the problems with religious people nowadays stem from a perspective that views life as a competition between individuals. They are “keeping score,” so to speak, and religious acts simply earn you points. They do not understand that individuals experiences differ drastically from one another. Even two children born in similar circumstances will face different choices and will have different possibilities over the course of their lifetimes. Even the bio-chemical influences that they struggle with will differ. There is no way to compare the two individuals, as their unique position on this globe are so drastically different. It is not about being THE best, it is about being YOUR best. In fact, truly being YOUR best can only be achieved by willing to admit that every individual has a special talent or inner, essential aspect that he or she does best, better than any other person on the planet. This could be something quite specific. For instance, “Sally is the best at putting her son Joe to sleep by singing him lullabies.” There is something to be gleaned from knowing how he puts her son to sleep, a unique act that no one else does. They may put their own sons and daughters to bed, but no one else can claim they put Joe to sleep. That is just an example. We all live our lives and accomplish deeds in particular situations that only we undergo, every occurrence is a unique one, no moment ever happens twice.

Okay enough rambling :slight_smile:

#140

Nothing personal at all! Actually, I agree with a lot of what you say… or at least, find it interesting. And I understood what you said. But, the well-frog, as you cited, not only doesn’t understand the ocean, he honestly doesn’t give a fuck about the ocean. Have you ever met a well-frog that cared about the ocean?

I think the universe is a very powerful thing, and I respect that. But that’s about all I need to know. Beyond that, I just try to live a nice life and be mellow. :mrgreen:

#141

^ya know not sure too many people try to live a crappy life and be hostile… but… well maybe we can start a trend here. :think: :stuck_out_tongue:

#142

I wish that was true! But, sadly, there are a lot of hostile people out there. And a lot of that hostility is brought forth in the name of one god or another.

#143

Yes

But not your god.

(and definitely not religion)

#144

not at all just to lay my cards on the table

#145

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utLrYEWhaXM[/youtube]