I believe that Jesus was a wookie.
I’ve joked about this before. Jesus and all his Apostles were all hippies. Think of it…some dude, wandering the countryside…preaching love and positivity to the people…all followed by other folks who also don’t have jobs. Then he pisses off too many folks and gets killed and those same followers write a bunch of books to cash-in on his death.
Stevo
^Summed up perfectly Stevo…
I don’t really agree - you don’t have to decide, you don’t actually have the unreasonable task of determining the reality of God sitting before you.
The more I think of it, the more it seems that conviction in a “belief”, that is, choosing to accept a hypothetical idea as fact and then insisting upon it as truth, is the equivalent of lying to yourself (and then to others, really). Think of it, if I tell myself this religion or that one, or this scripture passage or that one is the real deal, or not, then I’m telling myself something is true when in fact I do not know. It’s like, who do I think I am, anyway, thinking I could know what’s what? Or that it’s my responsibility to pick a theory and then accept it as 100% fact? It’s more honest to admit, hey, I have no way of knowing.
You don’t have to be certain of anything, … especially since you can’t.
But that doesn’t mean you can’t have a thankful, peaceful heart, and it doesn’t mean you can’t worship, and it doesn’t mean you can’t feel a part of a higher power or consciousness. And I kind of think I believe, but I have issues with the definition of that term as it relates to honest factual truth.
did anyone in this thread ever see the movie Time Bandits?
^Stay away from Concentrated Evil inside Microwaves…
Love Time Bandits. Netflixed it earlier this year. George Harrison was producer, I think, and his tune “Dream Away” is the closing credits number.
One concurs with Kevin. To pretend that you know the unknown is a sign of foolishness, or of self deception. To admit that you do not know is a sign of wisdom.
^I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion, considering that the idea of god is a creation of man.
Edit - I guess I should explain that more. Due to the fact that the notion of a divine being is just an idea used to describe an intangible concept (in contrast to a defined one), it is inherently offered up to be interpreted arbitrarily. I find this to cause an unease in that everything else we hold to be true has a defined state. It’s pretty contradictory, if that makes sense.
This is not meant to incite. But many, myself included, believe/know that they have been spoken to by a higher power. I am not saying that to be argumentative, and I respect your position of believing that “no one can know”. I feel that I do know that God exists. My statement, in no way, is meant to argue with you or tell you that you are wrong. But I have seen plenty of things in my life that indicate to me that there is a god.
Mom! Dad!! Don’t touch it!!! It’s EEEEEEVIL!!!
or you know that song from The Flaming Lips, “Autopsy of the Devil’s Brain” (You Have to be joking)
Woke up in the morning
got no science to explain
seems to me
that God and the Devil
are both the same.
Once you’ve had a God experience, generally, no amount of external rationalization can ever convince you of the contrary. It instills in you a peace that makes all effort to explain or enjoin other people to it, pointless, because a major part of that exerience is the overwhelming understanding that everything, from every corner of every world that you know and that you don’t know, is, and has been, exactly as it should be, so there is never a need to bother convincing anybody of anything, or not. Having a complete and utter knowledge and experience of universal Perfection is not something that can ever be denied, nor can it be something that you ever find a need to proseltize about.
It Is, and That’s That. Pass the potatoes, please.
^I haven’t traveled the universe much, but I can tell you that what/whoever created the world I live in is far from perfect…
Unless of course, imperfection was what God was going for, and therefore achieved exactly what he meant to do. To create a world where everyone gets wacky & frustrated to their wit’s end and then needs tons of help, maybe from God … but He’s hiding somewhere, in a secret closet, under layers of questions about faith and belief. Genius design, really.
Sorry, One is not quite sure that One understands.Yes, it certainly isn’t a defined concept, and it can certainly be interpreted differently. If One may ask, how can someone come to understand the unknown, that which is immeasurable, through the known?
Belief conditions experience, and in turn experience strengthens belief. The mind interprets experience, accepts or rejects it. The mind is the result of experience, of accumulation, of the past, and it can only recognize what is already known to it. The mind cannot experience the unknown. And this seems to be a conflict for many people- the known is always trying to capture the unknown, but it can only capture what is already known to it.
The unknown can only come into being when this accumulation ceases. IMO of course.
Exactly. That’s why He created “dinosaur fossils.” Man that guy is one tricky bastard. Always likes to keep up on our toes.
It takes more faith to believe in spontaneous existence than it does to believe in creation. And yes, I believe dinosaurs were created, and then they became fossils. Just like the fossils in our graveyards.
I think this very point proves that it is not religion that motivates the actions, rather that religion is hijacked for personal prejudices. Likely is the case for many wars with religious roots. The irony is that much religion preaches peace as most ideal.
To reply to the original topic: I certainly believe in God, and as the infinite, timeless, “first cause” of all existence. To a non-believer, what gives something “is-ness,” that is to say what lends reality to existence?
I see the purpose of creation as the bestowal of the ultimate kindness upon a sentient, “non-God” entity, namely humankind, who are charged with the continuation of that creation. This Godly gift of ultiamte kindness necessitates the existence of free-will, as true charity is giving a person the ability to do something on their own. Likewise, to what extent is an entity separate from God if God dictates that entity’s actions? Thus a person can never be absolutely 100% sure of God’s existence, in order to maintain free will (if God was openly provable to all than people would be compelled to act).
Reward and punishment are merely by products of a person’s “God standing,” or “closeness” to God. One who imitates God’s ways, as our human intellect can grasp them, is “close” which is in fact the reward in and of itself.
I haven’t figured it all out yet, and the suffering in Africa particularly stumps me, but this is what I’ve worked out so far…
I’m not stumped by suffering. If there’s a Heaven, you need contrast. Seriously. And, great post!