It’s all good fun! I mean, it’s important… but there’s no point in getting all riled up here, that’s fo sho. I just figured, if you don’t like the politics threads, you can avoid them the same way I avoid the sports threads. That’s all.
But the real question is… HOLY SHIT ELENA KAGAN IS GAY??? 
(/S)
^ when I first heard this I thought “come on, really, that’s the best they could think of”. Then I saw a picture of her and
I hope she’s asked about it in her confirmation. She’s got a quick wit. Could be a response like “no, not that it matters, but while we’re on the subject would you like to see my birth certificate”.
Can you imagine the silence that would fall over that room?
“Ms. Kagan, are you a lesbian?”
That would be an amazing moment in political history.
I know it’s a lost cause to bother responding once things have descended to this level, but why not. 
Yeah, Dooj was a dick. Plenty of ppl were being dicks in this thread. I think the sarcasm and eye-rolling comes (at least from me) from resignation. When you repeatedly make a point over and over and over, only to have other Pa members willfully ignore it and keep trying to accuse you of WANTING illegals to come live here, or of not wanting us to have ANY immigration laws, or not caring about the rule of law, etc… you just resign yourself to the fact that no meaningful discussion is gonna happen when people won’t even try to listen to what you’re saying.
So, what should one do in that situation, Ed? At what point is it okay to post a sarcastic eyeroll? Are the more progressive folks on the Pa just supposed to take the high road every time?
I’m not excusing myself or Dooj or anyone, I’m just saying that there’s a reason behind the problems you pointed out. You’re reacting to the symptoms, but what about the cause?
^Yup.
Will… I’d like to push to add KY to the list… they can keep their sweet tea & their twang.
Wow, the things I miss w/o the internet for a week 
can i just make one point that i always think about when immigration points are raised? what happened to the great american melting pot?
ps… i’m too, am with libtard
Maybe this wasn’t your intention man, but saying things like these is what makes you come across as pretentious sometimes. You seem to be placing yourself on a pedestal as the progressive, forward-thinking, enlightened people, and you guys (dooj more often than you) laugh at conservatives and look down on us as if we are ignorant and foolish. I don’t usually agree with liberals, but I at least do not laugh or scoff at them when they make their point. There have been multiple times when one of you has said things like, “Can you imagine what all those conservatives would do if this happened to them? Their heads would explode, hahaha”. That is flat-out contemptuous and lofty. I can’t speak for other people, but I do my best to remain civil and reasonable when I discuss things and try not to descend into name-calling and eye-rolling.
The reason I have stated that this thread sucks is that, by now, nobody is taking each other’s opinions seriously, and everyone is just laughing at the other side, dismissing their point of view as stupid. The thread itself needed to be made, as this is certainly a hot issue right now, and it is worth discussing. However, whenever a more conservative-type person posts their opinion, it is often met with utter disbelief that we could possibly agree with this law. Overall, I agree with this law, because it addresses a problem that needs to be addressed. It needs to be re-worded probably, but it is a step in the right direction, IMO. You can disagree all you want, but I would appreciate it if the disagreement was kept civil.
DISCLAIMER: Jay and Doojer, I have no problem with either of you. I like you both, and you seem like great people. We don’t agree politically, and that is OK, I just have an issue with the disdain that so-called “progressives” often show towards conservative ideals.
I stayed on the KY side during the Cincy 2009 run, and I must say their taxi drivers are completely reckless. That made the drive back night one VERY interesting… I think I told Will about this one… Anyway, it was after the bar!
So I vote to ban KY too, but let the taxi drivers come and go, ok? They ruled! 
BTW- I live nowhere near KY…
Back to discussing, sorry to get off track here.
^^Ship man, it’s all good. I know I can come off pretentious and condescending sometimes, but I promise I speak from experience and the heart. I hang out with a lot of Conservatives and a lot of Liberals. They are very different. Not gonna say all cons are alike and all libs are alike… but, yeah, most of the Republicans I hang out with are the types to support this law and then become outraged when they got detained and asked for their papers (and, yes, some of them are Latino by descent… and I can guarantee you they don’t carry papers). I still like them. But their views honestly baffle me. I just can’t wrap my head around the whole “this guy doesn’t deserve this and that guy doesn’t deserve that and I worked for yadayadayada why doesn’t he have to blah blah blah…”
I’ve run a small business for 10 years, put a child through public school and private school, paid my fair share of taxes and spent quite a few years in that upper 1% I’m supposed to hate as a liberal. I’ve also spent most of that time in Southern California, where illegals cross the border at insane rates. In the end, I just figure if someone needs help, I’m gonna help them and worry about whether or not they deserved it later.
No, not intentional. When have I ever stated that I find myself “above” others here? I know pretentious behavior is a big pet peeve of yours as you’ve pointed it out many times. I would never and have NEVER felt, stated, or intentionally acted superior to you or anyone else whose political or social opinions differ from my own. I am usually the guy trying to get us to see PAST those ideological divisions - not so we all agree, but so we at least examine our own opinions and positions by bouncing them off people who have different ones.
Ironically, the two things you quoted didn’t even occur to me as seeming pretentious. When I say “I know it’s pointless to respond,” you seem to read that as “because you’re a conservative Southerner, you’re too stupid to follow my astounding intellect and amazing insights,” when I really meant “it’s sad that we’ve divided ourselves so effectively we can’t even listen to each other.”
You have a good point, and I’m certain I’ve made mistakes or written things that did come off like that. But again… it’s not just me and Dooj. If you’re gonna paint people with that brush, at least paint EVERYONE with it - cons and pros alike.
Generally speaking, I have kept it civil, haven’t I? I haven’t called anyone names, I don’t think. (If so, point it out; I can’t think of a post that attacked a person but maybe I’m forgetting.) I haven’t laughed at anyone or called them stupid simply because they don’t agree. If anything, like I said before, I just throw my hands up in resignation and have to laugh it off, because what else can you do when people refuse to address the content of your statements and just fall back on implying that you don’t “love America” or aren’t “proud of your country” because you oppose the wording of one law in one state?
Instead, it’s like you’re just pegged as “against ANY immigration laws” and then a whole fucking boatload of assumptions gets attached to your position. And then it’s those assumptions that get attacked and “refuted,” not the substance of any position you try and articulate. So you end up realizing it doesn’t matter what you say or what you feel or think, b/c even on OKP people are just gonna label you “pretentious liberal” as soon as they see you’re taking a position that they can cram into that fictional characterization, and the meaningful conversation is over. It’s a war of talking points and bullshit assumptions after that point. So why NOT laugh? Why NOT roll your eyes? What the fuck else do you want people to do, Ed?? The eyerolling isn’t “wow conservatives are so stupid,” it’s “boy does it suck that we can’t have a real conversation about this.”
I have an issue being labeled. I have an issue being told that I think things I haven’t said. I have an issue being told I’m “less American” because I don’t support the wording of a single state law. I have an issue with anyone of any ideological stripe who will enter a conversation like this, but won’t even TRY to listen and discuss the substance of the issues at hand. I have an issue being told I’m arrogant and contemptuous because I don’t just roll over and take the bullshit assumptions that get thrown at me. That makes me pretentious? Fine. I’d rather be pretentious than be a fucking doormat.
So now Arizona is banning “Ethnic Studies” classes in High Schools.
WTF?
^You didn’t know that studying African-American, Mexican-American or Asian-American roots leads to terrorism and hatred of whitey?
That type of education cannot be tolerated.
Hell in a hand basket.
L.A. joins AZ boycott:
latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 … grati.html
Phoenix already taking a hit:
reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64A4EY20100511
Well, at least they won’t have to look at all those illegals.
Just read about the bill prohibiting ethnic studies…
Yes, because those black people in the old South were just a bunch of complainers.
Dude, Jay, I was not trying to be a douche. I guess I came across that way. If you have some pent-up problems with other members of the board, I don’t understand you taking it out on me.
But everyone knows she is, right?
It’s fine, Ed. Just a bit of an eye-opener or a learning experience. It’s just frustrating that you see me as a stereotypical category (“Pretentious Northern Liberal”) rather than as a friend or fellow Phish fan or just a human being. I can understand the reasons behind it, it’s just disappointing, that’s all.
I did overreact, no question. It’s not that important. Take care, man.
How 'bout it Zoot.