so who here is on the thinking path that jacob is now sayid, sayid is jacob?
Nah…Sayid is Sayid. But Jacob’s power didn’t die with Jacob’s body.
Definitely an awesome opener. Don’t have much time to write, but on another note: “Evil Locke” said to Richard something about being in chains. So this would most likely infer that when he came to the island he was in a different body, no?
Ah, and Kate escapes again in the alternate reality . Glenn is gonna love that. 
^I thought the in-chains thing was a reference that he’s no longer subservient to Jacob and has been “released” from his service. But lots of folks think Richard was originally a slave on the Black Rock though I question that but that could be an “in chains” reference also…the Evil Dude would say he went from a slave on the Black Rock to a “slave” to Jacob.
Anyway…lots of stuff and thankfully they didn’t introduce THAT many new mysteries like they seem to do in every season premiere (well…aside the whole potential alternate reality thing).
As for the plane, I’m sure you noticed but almost everyone seems to be an opposite:
-Locke = man of science? - He seemed to accept that nothing could be done for him. Also, I’m not sure if Locke was lying about the walkabout or not but maybe he WAS allowed on it and seemed happier about it. Not sure with him…he still looked annoyed when they were lifting him into the wheelchair.
-Jack = man of faith? - He said “nothing is irreversible.” Also, I read that he took less extra alcohol this time around. (And I was confused on that weird wound on his neck…I couldn’t remember if he had gotten that previously).
-Rose - was consoled by Jack in the original flight and in this one she was the one to console him. Also, she and Bernard seemed pretty happy so is she maybe cancer-free? Not likely since Locke was still crippled but maybe she got a better answer from the doctor in Australia where she COULD be cured?
-Charlie - I’m not sure here…was he happier previously and now he was more depressed? I don’t remember his backstory that well. At first I thought it was a “well he died on the island so he’s surely dead here too” but obviously that wasn’t the case.
-Hurley - Obviously he said he was really lucky and looked pretty pleased which is totally different. Could be possible because if the island was sunk in the 70’s, then the numbers wouldn’t have been transmitted and Hurley would have used different, uncursed numbers to win the lottery.
-Kate - Was anything different with her? I didn’t notice.
-Sawyer - Seemed to be willing to warn Hurley rather than try to con him but I thought this was him setting up the con but he never pursued it (though maybe he planned to pursue it later). Not sure with him either.
-Sayid - I didn’t notice this but I read that he was looking at an Iranian passport instead of an Iraqi one. This seems to me that maybe he wasn’t involved in Desert Storm and thus didn’t do all that torturing? Perhaps a kinder, gentler Sayid?
-Was Claire pregnant?..they didn’t show anything but her head? Did she give up the kid? And was she even on the plane?..She was only shown in the cab.
-Jin and Sun - I’m not sure here either since I’m not 100% sure on their past. Wasn’t Jin still a jerk last time and still was last night? And was Sun going to stay with Jin before but by not speaking English she was willing to throw him under the bus this time around?
-Boone was unable to get Shannon to leave her abusive relationship. (However, the directors have said that this was because they couldn’t get the Shannon actress for that scene so they changed it but said on the Kimmel show that they would like her to appear in later stuff).
Then there’s the Desmond thing which was just weird. All I can think is that it he is the “constant” and the “LA X” title with the “X” separate represents the variables which was everyone else.
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As for the alternate reality itself, I’m, for now, wondering if it’s alternate at all. That plane flight took place three years before the current stuff on the island so perhaps the island “auto-corrects” and will find a way to not only get the island surfaced again (we’ve seen it disappear so why not?) and get all the Losties on the island in the same way where little changes. This doesn’t seem to work the more I think about it as there would be major issues…like everyone in the 70’s who was still on the island would be dead when it sank which would include both Ben and Widmore and obviously at least Ben still exists in the present. In fact, it looks like NOTHING has changed in the reality on the island. I have no clue otherwise.
As for Sayid’s revival, everyone seems to think that it’s Jacob inhabiting the body of Sayid but that almost seems too easy. This is a little different from the Evil Guy who doesn’t take over their body and only assumes their form (and apparently their memories too). This could also explain why Jacob didn’t care when Ben killed him…he’d already made plans with Hurley and the guitar case so he knew he could live on in Sayid. Also, it stands to believe that Sayid never really died since they made sure to show Miles looking confused about Sayid (to me it was that he couldn’t read Sayid’s thoughts). Remember, Richard said that he’s seen many amazing things but he’s “never” seen anyone come back from the dead…when he said it, it was because he thought that Locke had come back but it turns out he’s right…no one STILL has come back from the dead. This would include Locke’s body so I’m not sure if they could revive him now (at least in that reality). Plus the water was murky so Jacob’s powers on it seem to be weakened (it didn’t fully heal the Japanese dude’s hand when he put it in) and didn’t seem to work on Sayid originally. It’s possible they would have never even attempted to cure Sayid had they known that Jacob was dead.
Also anyone think it weird that Juliette randomly was asking for coffee and then asked Sawyer to kiss him, also randomly? Was her brain going through some time warp or something? I thought maybe she was just rethinking her old memories of her and Sawyer before she died but there’s more to it? She seemed to “know” that “it worked” somehow so maybe there’s something up with her.
And man…Ben needs to get his fastball back. I’m not a fan of this “not knowing anything Ben” and liked the scheming one better. I still think he’ll have himself a nice tragic end where maybe he finally tries to lead the final blow to stop the Evil Dude. Also, nice to see that annoying dude Bram get owned. He annoyed me for some reason.
in the recap, the guy who was talking, didn’t he say he was on the plane?
You are correct Bastard about the characters being different on the Plane. That’s because when the bomb exploded in 1977 it probably changed a shitload more in the future than just the Plane landing at LA X. The Island has SUNK. But it was Sunk in 1977 and still at the bottom of the Ocean when 815 flys over in 2004 which means 27 years of history have been fucked up! Almost everything we know that happens in that 27 year period can be mucked up now. Why? So a few people can have a clear concience?
Here is some info about some of the things we saw last night.
The book Desmond was reading on the plane was Haroun and the Sea of Stories by Salman Rushdie.
Wiki states :
“Haroun and the Sea of Stories is a 1990 children’s book[1] by Salman Rushdie. It was Rushdie’s first novel after The Satanic Verses. It is a phantasmagorical story set in a city so old and ruinous that it has forgotten its name.[2]”
The book includes the following things:
- an ancient city so old that people forgot it existed
- a war between the rulers of that ancient city
- a main character who is represented by two sides of himself: an “anthropomorphic shadow” and a “diminished man”
Not sure, but wasn’t Walt, his dad, and Vincent on 815 when it originally left Australia? They were no where to be found on last night’s 815 flight.
What’s the deal with that?
And what about Claire? Was she on the plane? And what was Desmond doing on the plane, brutha? He wasn’t on the plane originally.
Wow, you guys are already deep into it…
Forgive me if I am repeating something, there’s a lot of reading to do here! But, here are my observations:
-It makes sense that the people on the plane are different, if the explosion changed the past. If the “alternate reality” (not convinced this is alternate yet, as bastard suggested) is in fact real then it is clear that Daniel was right about their ability to alter the timeline.
-Is Sayid now the leader of the others? Or has Jacob entered his body? I’m thinking it’s the former. Ben was shot in the stomach (by Sayid), taken to the temple, revived and made leader of the others. Then Locke is shot (in the stomach? I think he was…) by Ben, revived by Jacob or the Island and made leader of the others. Now Sayid is shot-- in the stomach-- by Ben’s father, taken to the temple and revived… so… leader?
-Are we gonna get to see good locke fight bad locke at some point? That would be awesome.
-Juliet said “it worked”… does that mean they need to die in order to get back to their proper place in time (perhaps the “alternate reality”)?
Oh, and good point about Claire… was she on the plane? Who knows?
As far as Desmond goes, I’m thinking maybe he’s still flashing and flashed onto the plane for a moment before flashing to someplace else…
^Very interesting theory about Sayid becoming the leader of the others. Sounds pretty solid!
She probably was. Even though we didn’t see her during the scene on the plane, after Kate escapes again from the Marshall at the airport, she gets into a taxi heading out of LAX, which Claire is riding in.
Did “Evil Locke” say that John Locke’s thoughts before Ben killed Jacob were “I don’t understand”? If that’s the case, and he is telling the truth, it would seem that the John Locke we know still retains some level of consciousness.
As I said 27 years of Past/Future have been altered. Also missing was Libby Mr.Ecko and Anna Lucia. If the Island was sunk in 1977 then we can only conclude that everyone on the Islans who was not on 815 died in 1977. That means Ben Widmore Richard Faradays Mom and a shitload of others are Dead and the futures they had and who their lives affected between 77 and 07 are all gone/altered.
^My thoughts, as well.
Well, either that or MiB is an all-seeing, all-knowing power like Jacob who simply knew what locke was thinking.
Oh and I hope that everyone has put together that every dead person who has appeared “Alive” on the Island has been MiB/Smokey trying to manipulate the Losties!
^Oh, totally. And the eye patch guy. That was totally MiB, right? Which is why he kept dying and coming back?
Good point on that one. I was trying to remember which of the other “Originals” that weren’t on the plane. Not sure on that one. It seemed like everyone, despite having different pasts, still ended up on that plane. Like, why would Hurley be on the plane when he went to Australia to investigate the bad luck numbers which clearly isn’t an issue now? Seems weird that we didn’t at least see Michael (they probably couldn’t do Walt since the actor is so old now).
Also, great point on Doojer on Sayid maybe being the new leader. Has no one else ever been saved in that pool but Ben and Sayid? I have a hard time believing that.
Interesting theory. Maybe it explains Juliette revisiting the old stuff with her and Sawyer as she got closer to death. Maybe the people still alive on the island are going to be “incomplete” in the new alternate world until they die on the island. (Jack seemed nervous about something on the plane…almost like he knew something wrong would happen).
I’m not sure of that…everyone seemed pretty disoriented when they would flash back and forth. Desmond looked like he was perfectly fine with being on the plane and acted like a passenger. Plus he wasn’t on the island after reuniting with Penny so he wouldn’t be involved in any of the recent flashes (though I guess he’s done it before outside the island). I almost think he was an apparition of the island but I’m not sure how that works.
I’m not so sure that Locke’s consciousness is still around. The Evil Dude may have just had access to Locke’s memories up to his death by taking his form. This is similar to Miles’ ability who can read people’s thoughts up to their death but can’t get any “afterlife” thoughts. I have a feeling that aside from the alternate reality, good Locke may be gone. The “I don’t understand” thought was in reference to how confused Locke was that he was sent to bring everyone back to the island and they all had said no. Remember, he was about to kill himself so no doubt he was confused leading up to his death and was likely even more confused after Ben stopped him only to kill Locke himself.
And I’m not going to assume that the tail-enders aren’t in the alternate reality. They never showed them on the plane in the first episode of the show (since they were in the back) and still didn’t do it in this alternate reality. (Plus it doesn’t help that Libby and Eko have left the show and couldn’t be shown even if they were on the plane). They never actually showed the rear of the plane itself…just the bathroom (which may have been in the front…I wasn’t paying attention).
Yeah, I finally figured that out after the finale last season. I’d also say that the EVil Guy has only been able to use dead people whose bodies are ON the island and were NOT buried. Christian, Eko’s brother, Locke…all have their dead, unburied bodies ON the island. Remember when Sawyer saved Ethan’s Mom in the 70’s and she was frantic about burying the bodies of her attackers?..I think she knew about it somehow. The Evil Guy couldn’t show up as Locke until AFTER the plane crashed on the island. This doesn’t explain Walt appearing but his powers may give him an exception and maybe he’s an apparition of good as opposed to the others being part of evil.
And I really don’t think the eyepatch guy died. We saw it later in the 70’s when Ethan’s mom used those barriers to not kill but just knock out Sawyer and the gang. It’s possible that eyepatch guy’s original “death” was actually just being knocked out by the barrier. I think there’s way too much speculation on that dude.
::mind blown::
I don’t buy the whole Sayid = Jacob reincarnated thing at all. If Jacob does have the power to reincarnate I think he will choose Locke as well and then somewhere in this season we’ll have an amazing Locke vs Locke showdown. Either way I think they’ll have these characters interacting with themselves sometime this season…which will be EPIC.
^I kind of don’t buy it either…it just seems TOO simple. The creators were on Jimmy Kimmel last night and I heard a soundbite. Jimmy asked them directly about Sayid and they were vague and said that something cryptic like “something is weird with Sayid” or something like that. I also forgot but they also mentioned that Michael and Walt weren’t on the plane and that “It was fate”, whatever that means. There’s gotta be a youtube of it by now…there’s a funny moment where they mention that Evil Locke is revealed as the smoke monster which was fine except that the studio audience obviously hadn’t seen the new episode yet so it got some laughs.
You may very well be right about that. However, The Evil Dude specifically said that thought pertained to Ben stabbing Jacob (which is after Locke is dead).
Jacob and the Evil Dude are deities…they know what every one of these mortals are thinking.
You’ve had some great posts in this thread. Thanks for your insight.
Just curious, are you saying this would imply that Libby, Mr. Ecko, and Anna Lucia are all dead in 2004? Because they were never on the island in the 1970’s.