^ Back in the basement? Is that Windy City? Or Beauty of a Broken Heart?
I mean Page only has a handful of songs first off.
Knowing Mike he probably doesn’t want to play his older songs. Although Desitny reappeared. Of course this is just speculation to me. I can see your point that Sugar Shack was probably the least played of the new material. That I"ll give you.
Hasn’t Trey written twenty times the songs that Mike and Page have?
Seeing the post from Moma Dave in the general Phish is showing me that he’s trying to write more. I mean hell the dude wrote a song that we’re all going to hear this summer with his i-phone while having lunch with The Dude of Life.
Yeah, Beauty of a Broken Heart. I didn’t think that sounded right. I’m not really a fan of that song anyways.
I love Trey, but I guess my major point is he is a leader, and maybe he shouldn’t be such a leader anymore. A major turning point with me was when Mike was playing with the Duo, and they were creating some awesome new music. And when Trey joined up, I was ecstatic… but it basically turned into a version of Trey Anastasio Band, and that kinda disappointed me.
It’s hard to stop being the leader after so many years. It has a lot to do with his personality, but also the guitar really stands out. Four people, one guitar. Maybe it’s because I’m a guitarist, but I’ve heard many more raging jams that were guitar-driven.
That being said, I’m also much more of a fan of the collective, group playing that occurs when everyone works together. I’m not so sure those types of jams are happening nowadays as much as they used to.
The other thing is that Mike’s songs are usually my favorites because he’s just so off the wall and creative. You can count on him to create some really distinct tunes, and I think that’s a key aspect to Phish.
Even if it’s a Trey song, the way Mike and Page (and Fish for that matter) really makes it a Phish Song.
I’d say Trey is the leader in terms of song writing and personality and I think the rest of the band (Page and Mike) have come to terms with that. But, ever since the mid-90s Trey has stepped back in terms of leading the jams too and gone for the collective communication during them. Since then the other three haven’t been merely an awesome rhythm section laying framework for an amazing guitarist to shred over, but key components to driving, steering, and changing the jams. IMO this is what makes 93-97 so freaking amazing…all four of them having the same level of creative input during the jams AND still getting to see Trey rage on his guitar like none other. (Toward the late 90’s the Trey guitar rage level seemed to decline, and let’s face it…since then it hasn’t been what it used to be). In the end I’ll take the collective energy and communication that happens on-stage between all four of them over 3 hours of in your face guitar work. That’s what makes me personally want to see every show.
I see your point. GRAB for sure turned into a version of TAB and that probably wasn’t fair to Mike. I think he kind has to be the leader of Phish though. I’m not sure Mike or Page wants to.
You make good points. I thought I get flamed for my opinion… I appreciate a rationale discussion on this matter.
Agreed 100%. (And yeah Fee… you and I had a similar conversation a few months ago.) I don’t think hating on Mike and Page for having solo projects - and not having those solo projects be specifically devoted to developing material for Phish songs - is really productive. For Phish to be successful, it’s members need to have creative outlets, and for Mike and Page those outlets for songwriting specifically tend to be outside of Phish. And that is GOOD for Phish. Otherwise they’re just gonna get frustrated and we’re back to Hiatus, Part III.
I used to see my favorite musicians having side projects as a bad thing, like a threat to the band I preferred them to focus on. Now I realize it’s often SO much better for them to have a variety of projects and collaborations outside of their ‘main’ band. If it keeps them musically and creatively engaged, that’s nothing but good for all of their projects.
^ I actually 100% agree with you Jay. I was more discussing with Will about the number of songs that appeared on albums for Page and Mike as opposed to Trey. I guess the coversation got deeper, but I have no problem with Page and Mike having their own solo careers…I was just responding to the notion that they don’t have their own creative outlets in Phish.
^Right, yeah - my post was responding to a couple of the thoughts in earlier replies, but I think Will does have a point that if Mike and Page were limited to Phish only, they probably wouldn’t get much of a creative outlet for their own songwriting. Thus, the side projects.
I’m not saying that Trey is “wrong” somehow to be doing the majority of the writing, it’s just a reality of that band and the individuals in it. To accomodate that reality, the other members are probably happy to do their own solo albums where they have all the creative input and songwriting involvement they want, instead of being limited to trying to shoehorn one song out of 10 onto a Phish album.
I didn’t realize the only creative outlet of a band was writing songs? I wasn’t solely expressing my thoughts on songwriting. Will’s initial response was that Mike and Page have to get their creative outlets out somehow (insinuating that they don’t get this opportnity in Phish). I wholeheartedly disagree with this as you could argue that Mike and Page pretty much drove the jamming last year. I’d say that’s some creative output. I suppose it’s not a song on an album, but it’s certainly inspiring improvisational music.
No, of course that’s not their ONLY outlet for creativity, but would you be happy as a musician playing someone else’s music your whole life? Even if it was great music and you idolized and loved the person writing it? Having the chance to write and play their own songs with their own bands is probably pretty important to them. And they don’t get THAT opportunity in Phish, for better or worse.
Look at their comments about releasing their own albums and touring with their own bands, like Marco said. It’s done nothing but good for them and for Phish. Page especially sounds more confident and assertive than I’d ever heard him pre-3.0. You’re right, they did significantly contribute or even drive the jams last year, which is a good thing IMO. So is songwriting the only creative outlet? No. But is it a significant one if you’re a professional musician with your own unique ideas, trying to find your own voice? Absolutely. Like it or not, they don’t have that outlet in Phish - and I don’t hold that against Trey, that’s just the reality of that band. But I’m glad they can accomodate that reality with their own projects and aren’t just frustrated by struggling against it anymore.
I love Mike songs and really wish he would get more songs on the albums.
That being said MY understanding is that the people PRODUCING and MIXING the albums have, more or less
“chosen” what songs should be on the albums. Producers probably prefer Trey’s writing to the other members.
To some degree I think this is true, but in the end I think it’s the band’s decision. They have hired their own producers often and taken their creative advice I think. But they own their own record label (JEMP) right, so there shouldn’t be pressure there? I know I read in the Phish Biography that they talked about how much freedom Elektra gave them with producing their albums…kind of let them be. When the company stepped in with their own ideas/producers they made Hoist, and from what I’ve heard the band isn’t too fond of that album. So from then on out they made most of their own decisions.
I appreciate a rationale discussion on this matter. 