btw, as I was typing all of this, I was listening to your Alex Jones show that you posted, and all I got out of that was that from his own words, the NWO is an idea(theory), it is simply a concept because it hasn’t come into fruition yet (and never will btw)
I also got that many early Americans were freemasons which is not news either (ie. Sam Houston/Davy Crockett/ Andrew Jackson) -big deal, so is Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, the Bush family, and John Kerry to name a few. Yes, a lot of powerful rich people are freemasons, that was what the secret society was set up for. It doesn’t mean their beliefs will come true. The NWO has never happened in the past, so why now? We can’t even properly occupy Iraq for crying out loud, but yet we’re gonna control the whole world? lol, whatever you say man, glad I don’t live in fear of something that won’t ever happen like you do.
i truly suck at puting my thoughts into words, but i will try:
i’m not trying to sound like a parrot here, it’s just that these points have been made and i do think they deserve repeating: in all reasonable probability, the NWO won’t ultimately happen. that does not mean that the very powerful and influential organizations that are trying to accomplish it won’t fuck shit up in a serious way in the process of trying to get there. that means YOUR life too. i don’t think people would be so flippant and dismissive if it was their own lives that became a living hell because of the ambitions of a very few and powerful people. yeah, nazi germany fell in the end, but six million jews died before that happened. and the nazi holocaust may not have affected ME PERSONALLY, but christ! there’s this little saying about those who don’t learn from history…
i know you want irrefutable proof for all these things. well, all i can do is point you toward what seems to be resonable evidence that leaves (at least in my mind) very little room for doubt. i’m not a washington lawyer or politician or journalist, i’m a guy with a desire for the truth. that’s all. not the “official story”, not what i’m told to believe…the fucking Truth. i don’t like that thousands and thousands have had to die to cover and distract from a lying gov’t, and i want to know why they are lying and what exactly they are lying about. hmmmmmm. if it looks like shit and it smells like shit…there’s a reasonable chance that it’s shit. don’t be lazy and expect to be convinced of things of such a large scale on a phish message board–investigate for yourself. and if you really want to get a picture for what’s going on, just follow the money trail. who stands to profit the most from a terrorist attack on US soil? it ain’t the common iraqi, that’s for sure. check out the PNAC documents which were written up by Cheyney, Rumsfield and Wolfowitz and finished a year before 9/11. the direction our country has gone in the last 7 years is all spelled out for you as plain as day in that document. and it called for a “new pearl harbour”. well ain’t that just an amazing coincidence. and there just seems to be no shortage of such amazing and convenient coincidences regarding PNAC, 9/11, the resulting war and stripping of our rights in exchange for “security”. these are nazi strategies for control straight from the books. i, for one, will NOT remain apathetic and lie down for this shit. it amazes me how many people seem to actually WANT to do just that.
you are losing your rights. the US Constitution is being torn to shreds. do you realize that? does that matter to you? or is it okay because you can’t even walk down the street smoking a joint anyway? whatever is left of Liberty is in danger of being lost forever. “it’s just a goddamn piece of paper” says george w. bush. that’s how much your rights matter to these people. that’s how much what this country once stood for means to these people. WE ARE THE ONES TO CHANGE THIS! i’m not trying to be an armchair patiriot here; i’m just deeply, deeply concerned and saddened by the state of our country and the world. who will change it if not us? seriously ask yourself that.
“Cowardice asks the question: is it safe?
Expediency asks the question: is it politic?
Vanity asks the question: is it popular?
But concience asks the question: is it right?
And there comes a time when one must take a position that is niether safe, nor politic, nor popular; but one must take it because it’s right.”
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
it’s extremely difficult for me to speak out about this, but i have to do what i feel is right.
ofcourse rich people who make decisions and control things help to ruin my life and yours, that isn’t what I’m getting at, and rich people controlling things proves there will be an NWO how?? btw, how are we supposed to fight back against these rich people and take back control? are we to rob them of their wealth? -are we to fight and kill them? how exactly are you CJ going to help stop the NWO is what I’m asking…by voting? if so, what makes you think that elections aren’t corrupt?
Yes it’s a shame what happened to the Jews, and you know how I’ll handle it if the theoretical NWO were to form and come try and put me and my loved ones in some camp? You know what I’d do? I wouldn’t let them take me!! -that’s what I’d do! I’d fight to the death, so yeah, I guess you could say we have learned something from the holocaust. Same reason passengers just aren’t gonna sit around and let another plane get hijacked and crashed somewhere, because they know what’s to come and they gang fuck the hijacker(s). Just ask Richard Reid how his last flight was -and he was trying to do it discreetly. So yeah, I guess you could say we have learned from the holocaust and 9/11 and from our past.
I am also a guy who searches for the truth. (btw, what makes you think I haven’t done any research, is it because I don’t agree with a NWO threat? lol) -and yes, the Project for a New American Century is a wealth of information and circumstantial evidence that helps with my theory on what happened on 9/11, it’s good that you read it too. You say you are mad that thousands had to die because of a governments lies, well tell me, what are the lies? -and why did they lie? -and what are they lying about? What is this truth that you have discovered through your research CJ, and what is the evidence to back it up.
^^^how come you guys can’t convince me? I want you to convince me. We talk politics here too right, so what’s the problem asking for theories and evidence to back up what you say. If you don’t feel like saying exactly why you believe something, that’s fine with me but still kinda shady when you think about it, and if you didn’t initially bring up the topic on the ‘phish message board’ in the first place, I would never ask.
and btw, when did I say I was okay with not being able to walk down the street and smoke a doob?? That was exactly OPPOSITE of what I was saying, and actually supporting what you are trying to say lol. I said not legally being able to smoke a joint is NOT true Liberty, and I am NOT happy with our freedoms and rights being stripped away. My point was we lost our freedom a long time ago, and continue to lose freedom all the time, so what do we do to stop it? Shall we reform the Confederacy? A bullshit NWO threat is something nobody needs to worry about, but what little freedom we have left is something to worry about. And if you patriots are doing so much to help our country, then why did the patriotic act which i was against get passed into legislation? What exactly do we need to do stop the elite corporations and politicians from feeding the rich and starving the poor? I am all ears for a good plan. Should we get in touch with Ron Paul?
to be honest Rob, i’m not sure what we should do. i’m in a bit of a state of confusion here. all i know is i’ve been watching this country go straight to hell on a vastly accelerated rate since this administration took power and i feel like i can’t take it anymore. what to do? very good question. here’s what i’m doing and am going to do: vote for who i believe is right (i know, i know. no point to it right? but i’m gonna do that anyway), and educate myself and try to create that useless thing called awareness.
i also need to step off the fear train. this is disturbing subject matter. the quote is for me. i tend to not be a guy to rock the boat most of the time. i’m just trying to find my own courage. i wasn’t suggesting anyone here is actually against what is right. we may have different ideas on what is right anyway. it was for me.
i know i probably didn’t present my thoughts very well in eveything i said up there. that’s why i made sure to preface it with “i suck at putting my thoughts into words” hahaha…
i know what you meant by the “can’t walk down the street smokin a j” thing. i was basically saying just because we’ve lost this much freedom already, that dosen’t mean we need to lie down and accept it. we can save our freedom. i don’t personally have a big plan on how right now, i just have that hope. and yeah, people like Ron Paul help give me that hope. he’s not a saviour or messiah or some shit, but he is on our side.
so that’s all. we’re all in this together. i’d much rather focus on our common ground than our differences.
and if you want to know some of the ways i came to the conclusions i have come to, here:
it began a few years ago when i inadvertantly came across a move called Loose Change. i’m sure you’ve heard of it, maybe even seen it.
as i tried to speak up to the people i care about and share this information, i was met with hostility and ridicule, but no one took the time to look for themselves. still haven’t. that’s okay though. that was my starting point.
from there, i learned about something called The Bilderberg Group. a “secret society” of powerful world figures that meets every year behind closed doors and decides policy. i then learned that they are but one of several such groups that form a larger group called the “Round Table”. together, these groups shape world policy. there’s nothing secret about their existance anymore, so i invite anyone who is interested to dig in. there is a feature length documentary called “The Money Masters” that is pretty eye-opening. there are also many others.
i recently watched another presentation called “Big Brother, the Big Picture” by a guy called David Icke. it’s three hours long and worth every minute. presented in as light-hearted a way as possible given the subject matter. there’s another one called “From Freedom to Fascism” that i highly recommend. it’s more along the lines of 7 hours, but it’s fascinating all the way through. yet another one called “Zeitgeist”. the good thing about that last one (which covers the same ground as the others) is that on the official website the producer provides a litany of his recources that can easily be obtained.
now, i’m aware that any of that information i listed COULD be wrong. i could just be a sucker being pulled into some crazy rabbit hole just for someone’s fun. but i don’t think so. too many people are putting their reputations, careers and in some cases their lives on the line to get this info out there, and the info coming from these different sources is too similar to just be a bunch of BS.
like i said, i don’t think the world gov’t will actually happen in the end. i think they are in their death throes now and they know it. for many reasons, one of which is awareness of their existence on a large scale. but they aren’t gonna lay down and die peacefully, and i guess that’s what’s got the hairs on the back of my neck standing up.
what are your theories on 9/11Rob? i truly would like to know what you think about it.
look Killer Rob, I’m over trying to convince people. I’m not going to do the leg work for you because I’ve already done it for me, my family, my close friends and I also publish a newspaper with tons of information.
The point is ROB, if you want to know (incidentally, I don’t think you DO) go to the googling and watching and listening yourself, I’m not going to sit here and SPOON feed you. If you want to believe that things are ok and I’m wrong, that’s fine…
You are going to see it OUR way one way or the other eventually, but by that time you probably won’t have storable food, water, etc…and you’ll be panicked.
Look, even if I’m wrong isn’t it in your best interest and in the best interest of your family to prepare for a disaster anyway? YES, so go do it…
again if your TRULY interested go look into it yourself. watch, read, listen, LEARN and then make your own opinion, keep an open mind and LOVE YOURSELF AND YOUR NEIGHBOR no matter how “crazy” they may seem.
Do you really think life is about work, entertainment, work, entertainment, sex, kids, death??
It’s funny because you say “Liberty is dead”— and if you truly believe this, is that ok with you??? If I believed that I would be extremely SAD
you say–“look I know rich people run things”–and this is ok with you??? If I thought rich people were running things for themselves and not WE THE PEOPLE I would be running around shouting on message boards, creating newspapers exposing them and stocking up on food and water…oh wait, I am and do believe that hahahahahahaha
go listen to more episodes of Alex, go read Ron Pauls articles, go read PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS (former secretary of treasury) go watch…TERRORSTORM, ENDGAME, AMERICA FREEDOM TO FASCISM, LOOSE CHANGE ETC. you can watch them all FREE at GOOGLE VIDEO FREE I TELL YOU…go read books at GOOGLE BOOKS ABOUT THE NEW WORLD ORDER, GO READ OR BROWSE THROUGH DAVID ROCKEFELLERS MEMOIR ON GOOGLE BOOKS…
darn man do the leg work yourself and come to your own opinions…I don’t have time to deal with EVERYBODY, just those that seek…
Per this discussion, a topic that intrigues me is the Denver International Airport. Apparently there is something underground there, and a man named philip schneider claims to have witnessed bizarre events there. (He claims he was in an extra-terrestrial fight and lost fingers as a result) He went on a national lecture ‘tour’ to try to enlighten the American public but was found dead in his house by suicide. He told his family that ‘if i ever committed suicide, you’ll know I was murdered.’ I’ve been to DIA, unfortunately nothing was out of the ordinary (not to say nothing is there). Anyone heard of this?
Many videos, especially Loose Change, have been bunked… just saying. I wouldn’t use them as your main points of view, as they are incredibly one-sided.
tfp, that’s fine if you don’t want to ‘convince me’. I wish you would convince me though, cause it would help me to hate the government even more than I do now. The point is, YOU brought up these topics, and I was just calling you out on them as to why you believe such theories and the proof and evidence that made you believe what you do.
if you can’t, or don’t want to state what happened on 9/11, or how there will be a NWO…that’s fine I guess. Still a little shady like I said earlier, but whatever. You know, it’s funny, with most of you ‘truthers’ (which is a name I hate btw), you all scream about foul play…but yet you can’t state what the foul play is and how it happened. Why is that. That’s like me going around telling everybody that I am a hollywood actor without offering any evidence or proof…I just want you to believe it’s true. Ofcourse, it’d be much easier to ‘believe’ if I presented you with a feature film that I starred in, instead of just telling you I’m an actor…correct?
It’s interesting that you don’t want to convince me of this. Particularly interesting because I am willing to listen to what you have to say. I am someone who you could very possibly convert with sufficient evidence. lol, but you refuse! Instead you try and shoo me away from the conversation. Imagine trying to convert half of Christian middle America to your beliefs with those tactics?? It would be hard enough to do so if you presented them with fucking plain-as-day evidence in their faces -and they still most likely wouldn’t accept your views. But trying to get them to ‘see the light’ on the matter by telling them to fuck off certainly isn’t going to convert them, or me, for that matter. You like good music tfp, that is PROVEN, but your politics…not so much.
yeah Will they’ve been bunked, oh I know…oh yes KillerRob I don’t want to convince you and YOU don’t want to do your own leg work, I think you would though.
Yep it’s all been debunked guys, nothing to see here, move along…
I’m not trying to Convert any of you…PEOPLE UNLIKE YOU ARE WAKING UP EVERYDAY, I will focus on them…Apathy is not hard to find these days, PASSION IS.
I will fight for YOU, all of you and you can laugh and point and stare and snicker and say you debunked this or that. It’s all good you two…Like I said “your ballgame is OVER”, APATHY and sticking your head in the sand will never change anything and I really don’t think you want to change anything and that’s fine with me.
“It’s interesting that you don’t want to convince me of this. Particularly interesting because I am willing to listen to what you have to say.” —oh yes I’m sure you DO want to LISTEN, that’s why you won’t do any of the leg work yourself…oh yes your sooooo interested…LOL
^^^lol, earlier you stated that your much-feared NWO threat “probably wouldn’t happen”, but now you’re living in such fear that you’re stocking up on food and water!?! lmao, what makes you think it’s gonna happen so soon? again, where’s your proof? lol, I bet you were one of those marks that ducked taped his windows & doorways when Tom Ridge put out that pathetic anthrax or nuclear attack warning!!
^^^you don’t need to lecture me on storable food & water, I KNOW these things son. I live in hurricane country. Don’t forget to lecture to your peeps about lighters, matches, batteries, portable radio, firearms, as much gasoline as possible to store, etc…and probably various other items for your kind of disaster. btw, by stocking up on all these items, is that admitting defeat to the all-mighty NWO? are you preparing to fight them by going into hiding?
^^^again, what makes you think I haven’t looked into it myself? and what makes you think I don’t care for others? -and yes, I AM truly interested. All I asked was for you to tell me how the NWO will succeed and how we can stop them (I never said the NWO wasn’t an ‘idea’ or ‘theory’) -and you haven’t given me shit to work with. Nothing, nata, not a damn thing. ZILCH. just to stock up on food & water.stock up on food & water?? are you for fucking real? yeah, that’ll show that mean ol’ NWO. Pork&Beans and aqua-fina, that’ll show 'em allright.
^^^sure it’s about those things, what’s your point?
no it’s not okay with me, what are we to do about it to change it?
^^^um, newsflash sherlock, you haven’t exposed a DAMN THING! get off your high horse, I’ll give you credit when you have earned it, but until then…
^^^again, what makes you think I haven’t done any research? because I don’t agree with you about an NWO threat?? GTFO here! You might be the worst, most naive, so-called political crusader I have ever met. Sorry to burst your bubble. A little tip, you gotta stop thinking you’re the 2nd fucking coming of George Washington, cause you ain’t. Stop hanging on Alex Jones and Ron paul’s nuts. Stop watching truther movies written by 20 year old college kids and taking these movies as the gospel. Hell, I watched one a few month’s ago called ‘Missing Links’. It’s a movie about how the Jews pulled off 9/11. I suggest you watch it too, actually I don’t. DO NOT WATCH that movie cause if you do you will hate the Jews, but you won’t be quite sure about how to tell people they did it.
Listen, bottom line is this, I explained to you very easily and simply of how an NWO CAN’T happen, how it WON’T happen, and how the idea has FAILED many times in the past.
You can’t give me shit on how it WILL happen…just a bunch of rich names who have an idea…well NEWSFLASH, that so-called NWO idea has been around for thousands of years and look where we are today, more different and separate than at ANY time in history. We are so different and separate, we will BLOW OURSELVES UP before one enemy bows down before another.
All I asked you was to expose these lies with evidence and explain what happened on 9/11, your version of events…and you CAN’T even do that!! (I never said that 9/11 didn’t have a multitude of lies)
My theory on you is you spread what another man preaches. You call yourself a patriot and a ‘hero’ lol, but you are no different than all of the sheep. You do what you are told.
I know, really I do. yes yes 911 myths and all that, uh huh
I know, I know boxcutters and a mastermind in a cave brought down 3 buildings with two planes, uh huh, TOTALLY BRO
YES, yes, burning jet fuel melted the steel beams in two hours flat and dropped those buildings in NO time at all actually free fall speed, uh huh, AMAZING I tell you
Yes, yes there is no wayyyyyy the government could be that smart, uh huh, uh huh, oh of course.
The pentagon, oh yes yes, there WAS bodies and debris, of course there was…what are these people nuts??
oh yes, the truth movement is dangerous and we’re all traitors and nut jobs, uh huh…
yes, yes the patriot act is meant to stop Osama, uh huh…of course…
this is all to surreal to believe and I need DYED IN STONE EVIDENCE, YES I DO
it’s amazing with you “trufers” you never can give any evidence, videos?, books? reputable congressman?? HOGWASH I SAY, why are you quoting Ron Paul why don’t you quote someone else??? DO YOU NEED ALEX TO HELP YOU??Jesse Ventura was a wrstler and willie nelson smokes weed, Paul Craig Roberts?? who’s that and why would I belive a former treasury secretary??
So, what you’re saying is, you will focus on dummies who want no proof or evidence, and will join you and your empire because some guy named Ron Paul is super-smart?
allright, I was gonna walk away from the discussion, but since you gave me tons of resources, and because you have done the research yourself, please answer your own following assumptions:
^^^okay, so I ask you to prove all of the independent architects wrong that say that vast amounts of jet fuel could indeed travel down the elevator shaft and weaken the structure. Prove that a weakened building couldn’t collapse in that manner instead of watching some movie that says it is impossible. Prove to me why it’s impossible, but you can’t.
^^^wait, earlier you were saying the government didn’t orchestrate this and now you are making jokes? So was the government in on it or not? and if so, prove it, but you can’t.
^^^prove that something else crashed into the pentagon, but you can’t.
Basically, you have a bunch of circumstantial evidence that you saw from some 20 year old college kids movie, but yet, you nor he can prove your own beliefs. You are just running around chasing at your tail, when the facts are right there in front of you. Again, you’re too naive to actually see that I also call bullshit on the governments story, but anybody that simply asks for your proof and evidence you see as a threat and you want them to go away, call them ‘nuts’ or whatever.
Now please, answer the following of your own assumptions for us right now, I anxiously await your replys
If steel was melted at the WTC then it was brought down by some other means than by the fires caused by the jet fuel. Therefor, the establishment can no way admit that steel melted. And this is the case. They refuse to admit steel melted as admitting it would be admitting an inside job.
Popular mechanics says there was no melted steel…
"Steel frames didn’t need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength
again, you are avoiding the questions I asked by offering up the 9/11 controversy’s(which I already know of, so spare me)
So AGAIN, please answer your own assumptions, and spare all the link bullshit. You can speak for yourself, correct?
^^^okay, so I ask you to prove all of the independent architects wrong that say that vast amounts of jet fuel could indeed travel down the elevator shaft and weaken the structure. Prove that a weakened building couldn’t collapse in that manner instead of watching some movie that says it is impossible. Prove to me why it’s impossible, but you can’t.
^^^wait, earlier you were saying the government didn’t orchestrate this and now you are making jokes? So was the government in on it or not? and if so, prove it, but you can’t.
^^^prove that something else crashed into the pentagon, but you can’t.
