You think because he was landlord he had “clear warnings” of something happening?
Please…
Have you ever had a landlord??? The things I have gotten away with in the past without my landlords knowledge… oh boy.
“Hints”, “endorses”… ugh.
^^ well if those “senators” and “congressmen” don’t like it here, they can just move to Iraq or France or something. pussies.
world-renowned scientist, recipient of the National Medal of Science, America’s highest honor for scientific achievement (Dr. Lynn Margulis) said:
“I suggest that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial investigation be undertaken.”
Former Director for Research, Director for Aeronautical Projects, and Flight Research Program Manager for NASA’s Dryden Flight Research Center, who holds masters degrees in both physics and engineering (Dwain A. Deets) says:
"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Centers on 9/11].’’
A 13-year professor of metallurgical engineering at a U.S. university, with a PhD in materials engineering, a former Congressional Office of Technology Assessment Senior Staff Member (Dr. Joel S. Hirschhorn), is calling for a new investigation of 9/11
A Danish professor of chemistry (Dr. Niels Harrit) said, in a mainstream Danish newspaper, “WTC7 collapsed exactly like a house of cards. If the fires or damage in one corner had played a decisive role, the building would have fallen in that direction. You don’t have to be a woodcutter to grasp this” (translated)
A former guidance systems engineer for Polaris and Trident missiles and professor emeritus, mathematics and computer science at a university concluded (Dr. Bruce R. Henry) that the Twin Towers “were brought down by planted explosives.”
A mechanical engineer with 20 years experience as a Fire Protection Engineer for the U.S. Departments of Energy, Defense, and Veterans Affairs, who is a contributing Subject Matter Expert to the U.S. Department of Energy Fire Protection Engineering Functional Area Qualification Standard for Nuclear Facilities, a board member of the Northern California - Nevada Chapter of the Society of Fire Protection Engineers, currently serving as Fire Protection Engineer for the city of San Jose, California, the 10th largest city in the United States (Edward S. Munyak) believes that the World Trade Center was destroyed by controlled demolition.
STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS AND ARCHITECTS
A prominent engineer with 55 years experience, in charge of the design of hundreds of major building projects including high rise offices, former member of the California Seismic Safety Commission and former member of the National Institute of Sciences Building Safety Council (Marx Ayres) believes that the World Trade Centers were brought down by controlled demolition (see also this)
Two professors of structural engineering at a prestigious Swiss university (Dr. Joerg Schneider and Dr. Hugo Bachmann) said that, on 9/11, World Trade Center 7 was brought down by controlled demolition (translation here)
Kamal S. Obeid, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Berkeley, of Fremont, California
Ronald H. Brookman, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Davis, of Novato California
Graham John Inman, structural engineer, of London, England
Paul W. Mason, structural engineer, of Melbourne, Australia
Mills M. Kay Mackey, structural engineer, of Denver, Colorado
David Scott, Structural Engineer, of Scotland
Nathan Lomba, Structural Engineer, of Eureka, California
Edward E. Knesl, civil and structural engineer, of Phoenix, Arizona
David Topete, civil and structural engineer, San Francisco, California
Charles Pegelow, structural engineer, of Houston, Texas (and see this)
Dennis Kollar, structural engineer, of West Bend, Wisconsin
Doyle Winterton, structural engineer (retired)
Michael T. Donly, P.E., structural engineer
William Rice, P.E., structural engineer, former professor of Vermont Technical College
^^^, I haven’t laughed this hard in a while, thnx charlieJack
Will, your an old timer…you’ve been “with” me since the beginning of thnkfstpal. Can I have that name back by the way??, pretty please…
I know, the “hint” “endorses”, that sucked, I did better with my subsequent posts.
The main problem I got is for every source you show us, there are just as many sources arguing the other side that you do not show.
Much like Phish tour, I don’t believe it until IT’S ON!
Thnkfst would make a good politician… or perhaps an even better campaign manager… Karl Rove incarnate.
However, I agree, I’m not too happy and very skeptical about this “bailout”. Its amazing for once to see both sides agreeing on one thing. Except I can’t stand Pelosi. Someone please send Pelosi and Obama off to phish tour never to return.
^psssssst! it’s ON.
and whatever goldphish. 7 years ago you were’nt allowed to question ANY of the motives of this administration, remeber? it meant you were a traitor. well, thank GOD so many said “fuck that”, and now, in however many ways, truth is coming to the surface. and people from every branch of gov’t and life are on these bastards like hound dogs and it ain’t gonna stop until justice is served. the only “Karl Rove” types are the ones still pathetically trying to tear down the folks with a clue.
I’m just too happy today to fall prey to your 911 conspiracy schtuff again thnkfrstpal. But I enjoy reading what you post because it stimulates my doubt, and doubt is always something to embrace, especially when it comes to these types of subjects.
But let me pose this question to you about all of these experts who are convinced that the administration either knew or conspired with the hyjackers on 911. If Gdub knew 911 was going down within some relative timeframe, and was planning to let it and use it to his advantage, why did he act like such a confused dolt at that elementary school that morning? If he knew, he would have be right there in the camera’s eye with a rehearsed and relatively intelligent response.
Either the guy IS the big dope we believe him to be or he’s not, and therefore intelligent enough to pull off the moron act in that classroom because he was so shocked and dismayed by the event.
This shit doesn’t work both ways. You could say that Cheney and Rove and the real bad guys kept Gdub in the dark, and I could agree with that, but like the hanging chad issue in the 2000 election, I left it up to a Pulitzer hungry media to dig up the truth in these matters.
Hordes of newspeople swarmed to south Florida to prove the vote tally was a fraud, and none of them could vouch that it was anything but an incredibly close race. Were the voting people stupid and ill-equipped to vote that way? Sure, but that variable is consistent all over the state and the country.
Likewise, there have been hotshot reporters from the NY Times to the LA Times looking to hang everything they can on Bush because they hate the guy so much. You can’t tell me that one of them couldn’t get enough proof to bring them down if there was REALLY any proof to what you and your experts are purporting. Occams Razor, d00d.
Conspiracy theories feed the emotions and help remove the feelings of helplessness that we all have over the fucking wierdness of existence. I want someone to be guilty of everything rotten in my life, but rotteness is a huge part of life. Just look at hurricanes, tidal waves, fires, floods and earthquakes.
But keep up the good work because I really love your energy and intelligence. Hope to meet you in Hampton, unless I get hit by a train beforehand.
we can’t all be “crazy”
^^^i’ve wondered the same thing Fone. about jr’s reaction, that is. hypothetically, if he himself knew, i really wonder what was passing through the hole between his ears at that moment?
look, reporters for the most part want to keep their jobs. The point is people that question the official story are not “nut” jobs or anything close to that. For the most part we’re professional, serious, passionate people who love this country and smell something rotten in denmark…
The fact that ANY of these people is taking a public stand on this subject is a wonderous miracle in and of itself.
The easy stance is the “terrorists brought down the towers” theory, you get all the MAJOR networks and HISTORY CHANNEL and what not kissing up to you.
The challenging stance is the “troofer” stance, you get ridiculed, harassed, physically assaulted, yelled at, name calling etc…
the truth is obvious to me…
Now I don’t like Michael Moore or anything…However he may be starting to WAKE UP
check it
Friends,
The richest 400 Americans – that’s right, just four hundred people – own MORE than the bottom 150 million Americans combined. 400 rich Americans have got more stashed away than half the entire country! Their combined net worth is $1.6 trillion. During the eight years of the Bush Administration, their wealth has increased by nearly $700 billion – the same amount that they are now demanding we give to them for the “bailout.” Why don’t they just spend the money they made under Bush to bail themselves out? They’d still have nearly a trillion dollars left over to spread amongst themselves!
Of course, they are not going to do that – at least not voluntarily. George W. Bush was handed a $127 billion surplus when Bill Clinton left office. Because that money was OUR money and not his, he did what the rich prefer to do – spend it and never look back. Now we have a $9.5 trillion debt. Why on earth would we even think of giving these robber barons any more of our money?
I would like to propose my own bailout plan. My suggestions, listed below, are predicated on the singular and simple belief that the rich must pull themselves up by their own platinum bootstraps. Sorry, fellows, but you drilled it into our heads one too many times: There… is… no… free… lunch. And thank you for encouraging us to hate people on welfare! So, there will be no handouts from us to you. The Senate, tonight, is going to try to rush their version of a “bailout” bill to a vote. They must be stopped. We did it on Monday with the House, and we can do it again today with the Senate.
It is clear, though, that we cannot simply keep protesting without proposing exactly what it is we think Congress should do. So, after consulting with a number of people smarter than Phil Gramm, here is my proposal, now known as “Mike’s Rescue Plan.” It has 10 simple, straightforward points. They are:
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APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO CRIMINALLY INDICT ANYONE ON WALL STREET WHO KNOWINGLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS COLLAPSE. Before any new money is expended, Congress must commit, by resolution, to criminally prosecute anyone who had anything to do with the attempted sacking of our economy. This means that anyone who committed insider trading, securities fraud or any action that helped bring about this collapse must go to jail. This Congress must call for a Special Prosecutor who will vigorously go after everyone who created the mess, and anyone else who attempts to scam the public in the future.
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THE RICH MUST PAY FOR THEIR OWN BAILOUT. They may have to live in 5 houses instead of 7. They may have to drive 9 cars instead of 13. The chef for their mini-terriers may have to be reassigned. But there is no way in hell, after forcing family incomes to go down more than $2,000 dollars during the Bush years, that working people and the middle class are going to fork over one dime to underwrite the next yacht purchase.
If they truly need the $700 billion they say they need, well, here is an easy way they can raise it:
a) Every couple who makes over a million dollars a year and every single taxpayer who makes over $500,000 a year will pay a 10% surcharge tax for five years. (It’s the Senator Sanders plan. He’s like Colonel Sanders, only he’s out to fry the right chickens.) That means the rich will still be paying less income tax than when Carter was president. This will raise a total of $300 billion.
b) Like nearly every other democracy, charge a 0.25% tax on every stock transaction. This will raise more than $200 billion in a year.
c) Because every stockholder is a patriotic American, stockholders will forgo receiving a dividend check for one quarter and instead this money will go the treasury to help pay for the bailout.
d) 25% of major U.S. corporations currently pay NO federal income tax. Federal corporate tax revenues currently amount to 1.7% of the GDP compared to 5% in the 1950s. If we raise the corporate income tax back to the level of the 1950s, that gives us an extra $500 billion.
All of this combined should be enough to end the calamity. The rich will get to keep their mansions and their servants, and our United States government (“COUNTRY FIRST!”) will have a little leftover to repair some roads, bridges and schools.
- BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BUILD AN EIGHTH HOME. There are 1.3 million homes in foreclosure right now. That is what is at the heart of this problem. So instead of giving the money to the banks as a gift, pay down each of these mortgages by $100,000. Force the banks to renegotiate the mortgage so the homeowner can pay on its current value. To insure that this help does no go to speculators and those who have tried to make money by flipping houses, this bailout is only for people’s primary residence. And in return for the $100K paydown on the existing mortgage, the government gets to share in the holding of the mortgage so that it can get some of its money back. Thus, the total initial cost of fixing the mortgage crisis at its roots (instead of with the greedy lenders) is $150 billion, not $700 billion.
And let’s set the record straight. People who have defaulted on their mortgages are not “bad risks.” They are our fellow Americans, and all they wanted was what we all want and most of us still get: a home to call their own. But during the Bush years, millions of them lost the decent paying jobs they had. Six million fell into poverty. Seven million lost their health insurance. And every one of them saw their real wages go down by $2,000. Those who dare to look down on these Americans who got hit with one bad break after another should be ashamed. We are a better, stronger, safer and happier society when all of our citizens can afford to live in a home that they own.
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IF YOUR BANK OR COMPANY GETS ANY OF OUR MONEY IN A “BAILOUT,” THEN WE OWN YOU. Sorry, that’s how it’s done. If the bank gives me money so I can buy a house, the bank “owns” that house until I pay it all back – with interest. Same deal for Wall Street. Whatever money you need to stay afloat, if our government considers you a safe risk – and necessary for the good of the country – then you can get a loan, but we will own you. If you default, we will sell you. This is how the Swedish government did it and it worked.
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ALL REGULATIONS MUST BE RESTORED. THE REAGAN REVOLUTION IS DEAD. This catastrophe happened because we let the fox have the keys to the henhouse. In 1999, Phil Gramm authored a bill to remove all the regulations that governed Wall Street and our banking system. The bill passed and Clinton signed it. Here’s what Sen. Phil Gramm, McCain’s chief economic advisor, said at the bill signing:
"In the 1930s … it was believed that government was the answer. It was believed that stability and growth came from government overriding the functioning of free markets.
"We are here today to repeal [that] because we have learned that government is not the answer. We have learned that freedom and competition are the answers. We have learned that we promote economic growth and we promote stability by having competition and freedom.
“I am proud to be here because this is an important bill; it is a deregulatory bill. I believe that that is the wave of the future, and I am awfully proud to have been a part of making it a reality.”
This bill must be repealed. Bill Clinton can help by leading the effort for the repeal of the Gramm bill and the reinstating of even tougher regulations regarding our financial institutions. And when they’re done with that, they can restore the regulations for the airlines, the inspection of our food, the oil industry, OSHA, and every other entity that affects our daily lives. All oversight provisions for any “bailout” must have enforcement monies attached to them and criminal penalties for all offenders.
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IF IT’S TOO BIG TO FAIL, THEN THAT MEANS IT’S TOO BIG TO EXIST. Allowing the creation of these mega-mergers and not enforcing the monopoly and anti-trust laws has allowed a number of financial institutions and corporations to become so large, the very thought of their collapse means an even bigger collapse across the entire economy. No one or two companies should have this kind of power. The so-called “economic Pearl Harbor” can’t happen when you have hundreds – thousands – of institutions where people have their money. When you have a dozen auto companies, if one goes belly-up, we don’t face a national disaster. If you have three separately-owned daily newspapers in your town, then one media company can’t call all the shots (I know… What am I thinking?! Who reads a paper anymore? Sure glad all those mergers and buyouts left us with a strong and free press!). Laws must be enacted to prevent companies from being so large and dominant that with one slingshot to the eye, the giant falls and dies. And no institution should be allowed to set up money schemes that no one can understand. If you can’t explain it in two sentences, you shouldn’t be taking anyone’s money.
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NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN 40 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, AND NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD RECEIVE ANY KIND OF “PARACHUTE” OTHER THAN THE VERY GENEROUS SALARY HE OR SHE MADE WHILE WORKING FOR THE COMPANY. In 1980, the average American CEO made 45 times what their employees made. By 2003, they were making 254 times what their workers made. After 8 years of Bush, they now make over 400 times what their average employee makes. How this can happen at publicly held companies is beyond reason. In Britain, the average CEO makes 28 times what their average employee makes. In Japan, it’s only 17 times! The last I heard, the CEO of Toyota was living the high life in Tokyo. How does he do it on so little money? Seriously, this is an outrage. We have created the mess we’re in by letting the people at the top become bloated beyond belief with millions of dollars. This has to stop. Not only should no executive who receives help out of this mess profit from it, but any executive who was in charge of running his company into the ground should be fired before the company receives any help.
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STRENGTHEN THE FDIC AND MAKE IT A MODEL FOR PROTECTING NOT ONLY PEOPLE’S SAVINGS, BUT ALSO THEIR PENSIONS AND THEIR HOMES. Obama was correct yesterday to propose expanding FDIC protection of people’s savings in their banks to $250,000. But this same sort of government insurance must be given to our nation’s pension funds. People should never have to worry about whether or not the money they’ve put away for their old age will be there. This will mean strict government oversight of companies who manage their employees’ funds – or perhaps it means that the companies will have to turn over those funds and their management to the government. People’s private retirement funds must also be protected, but perhaps it’s time to consider not having one’s retirement invested in the casino known as the stock market. Our government should have a solemn duty to guarantee that no one who grows old in this country has to worry about ending up destitute.
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EVERYBODY NEEDS TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH, CALM DOWN, AND NOT LET FEAR RULE THE DAY. Turn off the TV! We are not in the Second Great Depression. The sky is not falling. Pundits and politicians are lying to us so fast and furious it’s hard not to be affected by all the fear mongering. Even I, yesterday, wrote to you and repeated what I heard on the news, that the Dow had the biggest one day drop in its history. Well, that’s true in terms of points, but its 7% drop came nowhere close to Black Monday in 1987 when the stock market in one day lost 23% of its value. In the '80s, 3,000 banks closed, but America didn’t go out of business. These institutions have always had their ups and downs and eventually it works out. It has to, because the rich do not like their wealth being disrupted! They have a vested interest in calming things down and getting back into the Jacuzzi.
As crazy as things are right now, tens of thousands of people got a car loan this week. Thousands went to the bank and got a mortgage to buy a home. Students just back to college found banks more than happy to put them into hock for the next 15 years with a student loan. Life has gone on. Not a single person has lost any of their money if it’s in a bank or a treasury note or a CD. And the most amazing thing is that the American public hasn’t bought the scare campaign. The citizens didn’t blink, and instead told Congress to take that bailout and shove it. THAT was impressive. Why didn’t the population succumb to the fright-filled warnings from their president and his cronies? Well, you can only say ‘Saddam has da bomb’ so many times before the people realize you’re a lying sack of shite. After eight long years, the nation is worn out and simply can’t take it any longer.
- CREATE A NATIONAL BANK, A “PEOPLE’S BANK.” If we really are itching to print up a trillion dollars, instead of giving it to a few rich people, why don’t we give it to ourselves? Now that we own Freddie and Fannie, why not set up a people’s bank? One that can provide low-interest loans for all sorts of people who want to own a home, start a small business, go to school, come up with the cure for cancer or create the next great invention. And now that we own AIG, the country’s largest insurance company, let’s take the next step and provide health insurance for everyone. Medicare for all. It will save us so much money in the long run. And we won’t be 12th on the life expectancy list. We’ll be able to have a longer life, enjoying our government-protected pension, and living to see the day when the corporate criminals who caused so much misery are let out of prison so that we can help reacclimate them to civilian life – a life with one nice home and a gas-free car that was invented with help from the People’s Bank.
Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com
P.S. Call your Senators now. Here’s a backup link in case we crash that site again. They are going to attempt their own version of the Looting of America tonight. And let your reps know if you agree with my 10-point plan.
^man i’m no economist, but that sounds pretty damn solid.
what do y’all think?
Beats the everliving shyte out of the way we’re doing it now.
A little while ago I said this on the Yes board that I'm cheating on all of you with:
I say we scrap money. Nobody's saying it, but it's just some measurement that's no longer measuring anything but itself anyways.
Let's say we just keep working, and just go about our lives? Stay within your usual budget when you go to stores and buy your stuff with no money cuz we just don't use it anymore, ... maybe we can keep money just for sh!t like gambling and cigarettes, but everything just runs the same as it did. Except you can allow yourself to grab maybe one more CD than usual per month than you could with real money.oh yeah i think that’s ultimately our future, once we’ve moved past this paradyme of separation and insanity.
check this amazing site out: http://www.thevenusproject.com
from the front page:
The Venus Project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. There are many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the Earth’s ecosystems. As you will see, The Venus Project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.
The plans for the Venus Project offer society a broader spectrum of choices based on the scientific possibilities inherent in current technology and direct that knowledge toward a new era of peace and sustainability for all cultures. Through the implementation of a resource-based economy, and a multitude of innovative and environmentally friendly technologies directly applied to the social system, The Venus Project proposals will dramatically reduce crime, poverty, hunger, homelessness, and many other pressing problems that are common throughout the world today.
One of the cornerstones of the organization’s findings is the fact that many of the dysfunctional behaviors of today’s society stem directly from the dehumanizing environment inherent in the existing monetary system. Moreover, the currently utilized random implementation of automation and other technologies have resulted in a fragmented, self-defeating trend occurring throughout the manufacturing and high-tech sectors of today’s global economy–namely the technological replacement of human labor by machines. The Venus Project proposes a social system in which automation and technology would be intelligently applied and integrated into an overall social design where the primary function would be to maximize the quality of life rather than profits. This project also introduces a set of workable and acceptable human values that are more appropriate and in balance with our present state of technology.
Wow, for once I KIND of agree with Michael Moore (well except for bailing out the homeowners…they knew those were bad loans when they got them). I’m especially for #9 about not letting Fear rule the day since the gov LOVES spreading fear around. “Don’t think!! Just pass the bill! The economy could collapse into a huge nuclear explosion any second now!! There’s no time! Hurry!” Spare me.
Of course, isn’t it sad about how these bills work? We actually had a ray of hope when the bill was shot down and sadly we KNEW they would just rework the thing over and over and over and over again until it finally passes. Just hilarious.
And don’t you love our election here? First we had both candidates be in favor of off-shore drilling, then both candidates be in favor of fighting in Afghanistan, and now we have McCain who was for passing this bailout bill and he’s opposed by Obama who is…ALSO for passing this bailout bill. I’m glad I have so many choices for president.
And people wonder why young folks don’t vote…sheesh…
Stevo
Ring Around the Rosie
Pocket Full of Posie
Ashes, Ashes
They All Fall Down
soon enough, soon enough