Not doing so hot, huh?
I signed it.
I know i ( and most the people on my buddies list) signed it. but it still doesn’t look to good
It doesn’t matter. They won’t reform until their good and ready. Just give 'em time…
i signed it, but i don’t want them to come back for awhile. let them all get their shit together. mike and fish are ready. give trey and page time to do whatever. they’ll come back.
I signed the petition, too.
I want them to come back as much as everyone else; however, I must ask this question:
Does anyone think that if they do come back they run the risk of “tarnishing” their image?
I know some people don’t care, they just want to see Phish perform, and it doesn’t matter what critics or anyone else thinks. That’s fine. However, as someone who studied the media in all it’s glory in college, I can’t help but think the onslaught of criticism Phish will have to endure - in the critical, musical, and entertainment world.
Phish didn’t exactly “go out on top” and “leave them wanting more” (I’ve read horrible reviews of Coventry), but coming back from a hiatus a second time might leave a bad taste in some phans’ mouth.
Let me know what you think.
This may be a weak argument (and another comparison to the Dead) but this is what first jumped into my mind.
In my opinion, the Dead stopped being the Legend that they have become around the late 70s, early 80s, and they started to become a different band. They continued to play for over a decade from that point, and were still successful (probably the most successful) and their audience grew.
My point being that once Phish is completely done (which I do not believe will truly happen until they really can not come back together and play), phans and everyone will look back at their career, and pick the parts that they like and not really care about the rest. I know my favorite Dead is between 67-73 or thereabouts, and I almost hate the 90s band. My solution to this, I just do not listen to the 90’s shows. So I guess this rant is to show that Phish will probably always be a favorite of someone for one reason or another.
I completely understand what you’re saying, and I think the dichotomy between Phish and the Grateful Dead definitely exists in this realm.
I suppose if Phish did come back; say, 3-5 years from now, they will no doubt be rusty and probably sound different. They certainly will not be the same band true Phishheads remember ('93-97), although I must say I enjoy '97-'00 Phish better.
The point is that yes, regardless of anyone’s (media, critics, diehards, newbies) opinion, we will all have our favorite Phish eras.
I enjoy the Grateful Dead (but I am no means a “deadhead”), and their early stuff is by far more enjoyable to me than their later stuff. I am especially fond of their early studio work (American Beauty, Workingman’s Dead, Aoxomoxoa).
I, personally, will not think any less of the band should they decide to return. That isn’t to say that I will not think fondly of their music (should it be on the shoddy side), but I will make every attempt to see them. But yes, listening wise, I will stick with '97-'00.
to me it doesn’t matter what sound phish would come back with. for instance, post-hiatus phish sounded very different than before. and that would have been fine for most everyone. but i think, correct me if i’m wrong, but what made many people cringe was the sloppiness. segues went away and many beautiful songs became soundtracks to pulling teeth. if they come back, i don’t care what they sound like because they are so damn talented and creative to not play damn good music. i just want the sloppiness to be gone.
If there is one thing those guys don’t care about, it’s media critics. Look at all of the crappy album reviews they got over the years. I don’t think they can really tarnish their image just by coming back. They would have to do something that goes against their image: Phish Summer Tour brought to you by: Clorox!; Playing stadiums/charging $85 for shows at Atlantic City casinos like Van Halen.
I was going to post this on the “Best post-Hiatus Show” thread: 6-19-04 was EASILY the second best of 27 shows that I saw. They played a 20 min. Song I Heard the Ocean Sing which was friggin phenomenal. LimbXLimb was great and the first set was Killer. If anything, it made me mad that they could still play so well and they were going to hang it up. They didn’t play Hood or Mike’s or YEM and yet it was an awesome show. After seeing Guyute and Character Zero trotted out so many times, it made me realize that they can stilll play a kick-ass show without going into the usual bag of tricks.
I guess what I’m saying is, they are still capable of greatness, they just don’t want to put the work in. Maybe that will change. Maybe Trey’s tour being cancelled will make him realize that he needs the other guys to keep him revitalized as an artist. Maybe the other guys will try to take a greater role in songwriting.
If they come back, they need something to change: new songs, retire old ones, etc. There’s no law that says they have to play Velvet Sea.
i’ve said it before in one these posts, but how good was 6-19-04?!!! it was just mentioned again above. i still listen to it all the time. that song i heard the ocean sing and piper are works of art!
It was great. Were you there? The aside from the show being fantastic, the weather was perfect, nice venue, etc. But it was a Saturday in June, and right across a small parking lot/traffic circle there is a big banquet-recpetion hall that was hosting a wedding.
Those people were SO PISSED. There were tour heads offering veggie burritos to the motehr of the bride, groomsmen ditching to check out the lot scene, and the limo couldn’t get in or out.
BTW: Limb by Limb followed the massive Piper>Gotta Jibboo and it too was a masterpiece. Best version I’ve ever heard of it.
no. i wasn’t there. see “what do you do for a living”. i was in the bahamas at the time. i remember getting back and downloading the show. blown away. period. but i wasn’t there. you paint a good picture though. if phish was drowning out my wedding (in october) i would be thrilled! ha!!!
I agree! Of course '03-'04 Phish wasn’t the Phish we had all hoped…maybe that’s because we had such high expectations after those years of greatness and consistency. A few years off will make you rusty. And I completely agree that there were moments of sheer brilliance (6.23.04 CE+P) and moments of letdown (Coventry).
But I’m content in saying that while I was at those post-hiatus shows, I had a good time, made the most of it, and enjoyed it immensely.
I would love nothing more than to be blessed with another phish tour. I think it’ll probably happen sometime in the future, but it’s unfair for us the phaithful to try to force it. All the talk about being stuck in a rut, the scene being too big, too many drugs, too many etards, the need for artistic exploration, the nostalgia act trip, etc. is certainly valid, but I really think that if you had to strip it all down to one reason for calling it quits, it would be Trey and drugs. People don’t want to admit this, or acknowledge it, but come on- listen to coventry. Listen to the third set from the first night. It wasn’t the band that sounded like shit, it was Trey. And for anyone who was there, you saw the vacant glassy-eyed confusion, it should be obvious. Yeah, he was nervous. Yeah, he was emotional. Yeah, there was a lot of stress from the weather and whatnot. And yeah, he was too fucked up to play. At least too fucked up to play to his potential.
If Trey doesn’t get his shit together before they try to play again, it will most likely self-destruct very quickly, and even if it didn’t, I don’t think anyone would want to see Trey go out like Jerry did.
i didn’t get to see any '04 shows. was trey really looking that bad? and not that i doubt you, but are you SURE is was drugs? i hope he doesn’t go down an all-too-familiar road that some of his and our icons have gone down. fun is fun, but addition is something else.
I wonder the same thing. I saw 2 '04 shows, and at the first one he was NOT very animated (but the playing was great). He just sorta stood there and looked up into the lawn and didnt really move around that much. I thought it was sort of strange. I was hoping for some movement, some stage banter, anything. Nothing. But a solid show nonetheless.
I consider myself astute on Jerry Garcia and I certainly know he was lethargic and hard to get along with near the end of his career (and life). I would certainly hope that Trey is nowhere near Jerry in terms of drug abuse, but we can only speculate so much. No one on here is certain that it is drugs.
I think Phish is something that the individual bandmembers could not keep up with anymore. They formed the band when they were younger. (Early 20s)They were able to devote all their time and energy to Phish. (Check out the Guitar World interview with Trey from last Summer. It’s interesting.) Now they’re in their 40s. They have families, etc. The fans were coming to hear Fluffhead and other songs that Trey wrote 20 years ago. (I would imagine it’s like trying to play with Transformers now that I’m 28. I remember how cool it was for me 20 years ago, and I appreciate it, but it’s just not the same.) Now Trey wants to write new songs and play those. (I saw Trey at Austin City Limits Fest last September…very soon after Coventry. I will admit that it was hard when the piano player started playing Stash. Trey looked like it was hard for him too. They played it briefly with no words.) I don’t think Phish should ever come back and play shows. That time has passed. I think that they were so great because they were all friends and they all simply enjoyed playing music together. It was so pure. I think that is something that all great bands have in common. I like to think that whenever they are all in Vermont they meet at The Barn and play together. Just the four of them. No audience. No recording. Just four good friends hanging out, enjoying eachother’s company, maybe passing a doob and/or a bottle, and jamming. That makes me smile more than the thought of an '06 Summer Tour.
^Like you say, not as good as other eras but still rocking. Trey on a rough night is still amazing, and substantially better than most anything else you could go see. Coventry was definately an exception, but the mere fact that he would allow himself to get so fucked up, and then get just as fucked up the next night indicates some sort of drug problem to me.
Especially knowing that so many people had such high hopes for the show. If what people are saying is true, and I hope it’s not, it’s very disappointing. What a bitter way to end things (if that was, indeed, the end…?)