I’ll agree with this. Mike and Page shouldn’t be disqualifed from contributing songs. The thing is they didn’t have a bunch of material. Trey came to the studio prepared…whereas Mike wanted to collaborate during the process. That’s when albums take forever to get made.
I also agree and think Trey has definitely wrote some ghey songs. I think most musicians have that have penned hundreds of original songs. At least Trey realizes these songs are clunkers and doesn’t keep going to the well with them (your examples of jennifer dances was only played in 99 and Friday hasn’t been played in 3.0). I also agree with your notion that Mike write’s some great songs that Trey couldn’t write. I don’t see Trey writing a Weigh, Mound, Poor Heart, etc. Now the same can be said the other way around. I don’t see Mike ever writing a song such as YEM, Guyute, Divided Sky, Hood, etc.
I love all 4 guys as well. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t. I also am a big fan of TAB. I by no means think TAB is better than Phish, but it’s certainly my favorite side project.
I kinda feel the same way, Jay. Sometimes I feel like Trey has a bit of a superiority complex. But I also feel sometimes that Trey thinks he has to be a martyr and take a lot of shit because Phish is “His Band”. There has been a lot written about Trey and his feelings about this sort of thing . . .
As far as SOTG and Farmhouse being a double album, I think it COULD work, especially with the combination Ghost, Birds, Piper, Meat, and BOTT. I actually like that idea.
Disc 1, Side A:
Ghost
Birds of a Feather
Twist
Bug
Wading in the Velvet Sea
Side B:
Meat
Limb By Limb
Heavy Things
Gotta Jibboo
Roggae
First Tube
Disc 2, Side A:
Piper
Frankie Says
Sand
The Moma Dance
Back on The Train
Guyute
Brian and Robert
Side B:
Water in the Sky
Farmhouse
Dirt
Fikus
The Inlaw of Josie Wales
Sleep
End of Session
RE: Songwriting, I agree that Mike couldn’t have written something like Sky or YEM. And that aspect of Phish is one of the things that I think makes their music SO strong and their legacy as a band so unique - the fact that you have some very different minds and creative visions working together on something that has so many different facets, yet is still a cohesive whole. That’s a big part of why I like SotG - because it’s not pure Trey, it’s more diverse and organic and compelling as an album. Which ironically is probably the reason Trey does NOT like it… b/c it’s not “cohesive” enough to him. However, in this context, I think ‘cohesive’ is code for “I didn’t get to dictate the whole thing.”
It’s telling that on Mike’s site, if you go under his list of Albums… Story of the Ghost is the ONLY Phish album he includes. I just see that and I feel pretty sad in a way, because Mike and Page and Fish are more than just Trey’s backup band. They ARE Phish.
And obviously I’m not a big TAB fan. Trey solo does virtually nothing for me… I want to hear his epic compositions and I want to hear his virtuosic guitar skills… I’m not as interested in Trey as lead singer and big-band leader. Mike’s solo band, on the other hand, I find far more interesting and fun.
Anyway, just my .02, good talk, very impressed with your responses Fee.
I think like they mentioned in the book that Trey’s mind is going a hundred miles an hour non-stop and it seems like he has a vision for what he wants. Anything slowing him down from achieving this vision seems to frustrate him (the SOTG session’s). It’s been mentioned in this thread, but so many songs were held off for Farmhouse such as Piper, Twist and Dirt. I gotta feeling that Trey felt strong about wanting certain songs on the album and ended up getting nixed by the band/producer…hence why it’s not exactly his favorite album.
Does Trey have a huge ego? absolutely…but Gordon picks and chooses where to step on Trey’s ego. For instance like you mentioned Mike only lists the SOTG under Phish albums on his website. That to me is a direct shot at Trey. Maybe I’m reading way into it …but I think Mike is basically saying that I play bass for this dude (Trey) on the other albums and the only Phish album I really contributed to was SOTG.
I went to Mike’s solo tour this past fall and I gotta be honest I had a great time. His band was a lot better than I thought it would be. The Green Sparrow has even grown on me. I still don’t think his band can touch TAB, but there is no question Mike has it going on.
I guess ultimately I just want all 4 guys to coexist and I was kinda rubbed the wrong way that Mike made this process difficult at times. I don’t even know this for fact that Mike was difficult. Only from what I’ve read in the Phish bio and on his hotline have I suspected this and it was kinda implied in both cases. Obviously Trey and Mike have remained good friends to this day as they even had a band going on during the hiatus. Ultimately I think Trey has the utmost respect for Mike’s playing and vice versa.
Yeah… we’re getting into some pretty detailed conjecture about the personalities of four guys we don’t know… haha… but Trey definitely is prolific as a muthafucka and I’m sure you’re right that he gets frustrated by anything slowing that down. I guess I just don’t rank Trey’s frustration as a higher priority than Mike’s or Page’s. (I leave out Fish b/c I seriously think he’s happy just playing drums with Trey and doesn’t care.)
Trey could have his own band… he could have 3 guys just playing what he tells them, and be the undisputed leader, but that band would be nowhere near as good as Phish is, I don’t think. The music is as amazing and compelling as it is because it has four strong, creative minds behind it, IMO.
RE: Mike’s inclusion of SOTG… I think he’s just being honest. I don’t take it as a shot at Trey. He’s just acknowledging the reality of his contribution to their albums, I think. Also, If you look at the pictures / media section of Mike’s site, the pics are divided up into categories, and one category is “My Heroes.”
This is the very first picture in the My Heroes section:
I thought that was super cool.
And it’s funny… I ultimately agree with your “wanting all 4 guys to coexist” part… ironically, you feel Mike was the obstacle there, and I feel Trey was (for different reasons). I’m sure each of the four guys had their moments of douchebaggery, though. We all do.
I had a bit of a delay on Christmas with my family, so I just got the book this past Sunday. I like it so much already. I’ve been waiting for something like this.
Finished the book today…loved it, I just decided to read it today, I had been reading in short little times when I felt like it, but today I decided to finish it…I learned a lot from it, the whole hiatus thing was cleared up, I was listening to Sleepy Monkey from Island Tour when I got to Trey’s note about “quitting”, and that was very ironic (“its just not the same anymore…”), I didn’t really know how much Mike opposed the hiatus, and I learned of the “left nut”- possibly my favorite part of the book… I read about the reunion while listening to the Hampton Fluffhead, and it gave me chills for the first time…anyone who hasn’t read it, I’m gonna ruin it for you- it has a happy ending!
Just picked up the book today from the schools library. I’m so excited to read it since I’ve only been listening to Phish for roughly a year, and have been loving every second of.
