The war and Bush

Non-Phish General
#181

Interesting read Booji… I just got around to reading it.

What worries me is even if this country makes radical changes to a more sustainable lifestyle, thereby reducing our need for middle eastern oil, I don’t think the radical muslims will leave us alone. You kind of down play the 9-11 attacks as something that is nothing to be worried about. When will you see that as a serious threat to this country? Will it take a nuclear attack?

I cannot say I truly support the war and all the violence purpetrated by our military nor can I truly support the policies of the current administration. However I do think something needs to be done. I don’t know what that is but I don’t think cutting ourselves off from the middle east is the answer.

I don’t know what to make of Isreal but it seems aligning ourselves with them has been detrimental… I’m not sure what the right course of action is there.

ah well… anyway it seems the “crackdown” has begun in Baghdad… guess we’ll see what mess this brings.

#182

So what do you think about the news today about the Pentagon literally twisting pre-war intelligence Goldphish?

This is starting to turn Shakespearean, and we’re American! :stuck_out_tongue:

This is just getting ridiculous IMO. Tonight on The News Hour with Jim Lehrer they were talking about how this is out of control on the ground in Baghdad.

The point that they made that I never really recognized was that not only do the Americans not know who the “enemy” is, neither do the the Iraqi “police” and “Army” (< if there is one of those).

I never looked at it that way.
Who are our brothers and sisters supposed to be stopping?
The Sh

#183

Yes is does sound like Vietnam… well, atleast there hasn’t been a draft.

It doesn’t surprise me that info was twisted… there was all sorts of misinformation etc at the beginning of this war.

I think the idea was to bring democracy to Iraq and things went horribly wrong when people didn’t fall into line and insurgency became the norm. I find it quite short-sighted of our apparent military intelligence to not see this as a potential outcome and have a plan to counter it BEFORE invasion. Now the enemy are the insurgents but they don’t wear bright red coats so I can’t see how they are supposed to combat this threat. I guess there essentially needs to be a lock-down of the entire city where everyone is accounted for… then somehow round-up the insurgents. How they are going to pull that off I havn’t a clue. The insugents are not going to give up and neither is al quiada… if they can’t strike they will wait till they can. So there is no room for complacency, ever.

#184

Booji I hear what you are saying but some points don’t seem quite right to me. things like this:

What I think you don’t recognize is the real reason the radical muslims hate the US, Isreal, or anyone else for that matter… even other muslims who are of different sects. It comes down to thier fundamentalist belief system. They are extremely prejudice and intolerant of anyone that doesn’t believe in what they believe. All outsiders are considered infidel and, according to thier teachings… if taken literally, those that are infidel must be converted or die.

Think on it. If this were normal people who had love and compassion for all others in thier hearts and walked the earth with tolerance and patience than I think those two parties, Isreal and Palistine, could come to some sort of mutual understanding. Without all the bloodshed… but thats the problem with fundamentalist views… I’m right and your wrong. No ground for patience and tolerance.

We all have to live together in this world. How are we going to do this when people just will not come to terms with one another? Its not the US fault. Its not Palistines fault. Its not the Talibans fault. Its the flaw and confusion of our own human mind possessing the flaws of intolerance, anger and hatred and lacking the virtues of understanding, love and compassion. That is what all these people really need. Less self-interest and more altruism, concern for others welfare.

Again, think on it. If these people fighting over a piece of land could actually stop thinking about themselves and their own needs for a bit… and consider the others needs then I think a solution would not be far off.

You may think I’m naive but what I see is a state trying, perhaps in vain, to bring understanding and tolerance to a region full of prejudice and hatred for one another. Trying to give people who are not so blind to such values a chance to flourish… and in doing so make the world a better place. Its failing miserably… and I agree that there were all sorts of selfish and other motivations for going into Iraq… but I see a basic goodness at work behind it.

I’m not that interested in reading up on all this too much… so if I’m totally ignorant then correct me or ignore me. I was watching a Sunday morning political show and they were saying we’ll know in 6 months or so if the surge actually helped. Sometimes I prefer to wait and see what happens.

#185

Good points booji… I don’t have anything else to say at the moment. I can only critically think once a day or my head explodes :wink:

#186

^^ Nice post Booji Boy

#187

While they’ve condemed Iran they keep saying a military offensive is not something they will do. I also can’t see congress passing that one. Just today the house voted to reject Bushs lastest plan but I don’t think the Senate will keep the funds away from the troops.

This is basically how I feel about the whole thing.

#188

^I don’t know what to make of the corruption of all the money being used over there… greed I guess.

Either way it doesn’t look like congress will cut off funding. Its confusing and there are too many details that I’m not certain about but I don’t think congress will back away on this.

#189

Hmmm…your awfully quiet about the war lately Goldie.

What?
You don’t want to talk about how well its going over there with the surge?

"BAGHDAD

#190

haha… well… I have thought about this thread on occasion but whats happening over there certainly seems to be speaking for itself. And whats happening in our own gov’t.

To be honest I can’t say I’ve been watching too closely but close enough, I suppose, to notice a shift from a Bush led war to a Congress led war. Correct me if I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem Bush has many allys on Capital Hill and as the tide slowly turns we will see troops start to pull out.

Seems his surge isn’t doing a damn thing. I don’t know. I admit to supporting his “last ditch effort” but clearly the fighting has got to come to an end someday and these people have to figure out how they are going to exist together. Or blow each other off the face of the Earth? Is that what is going on? Sometimes I’m just completely baffled by the whole thing. Its easier to understand the VT rampage. This war with the muslims and jihad and sunnis and shites and talibans and al quaidas and suicide bombers is such a complicated morass of death, destruction and confusion. Makes my head reel sometimes. :-[

Thanks for bringing this thread up again GC, since a little time has gone by maybe we can make a little sense out of what is happening over there these days.

#191

Not to change the subject entirely, but it occurred to me recently that the news isn’t reporting any bombings in and around Israel. Have the Israelis and Palestinians finally come to a truce or something, or is the Iraq news overshadowing the hostilities that are still going on there?

Anyone know what’s going on offhand?

#192

There has been alot of talking going on between the two of them lately.
The Israelis are trying to figure out how to get that soldier back, but the Palestinians want like 20 prisoners freed for the 1 Israeli.
Don’t think that’s gonna happen.
There has been alot going on between the two of them since that meeting in Saudi Arabia last month.
Alot of hope.
But when it comes these 2, one day is fine and the next is horrible.
There has been a cease fire for a while since that meeting, but today there are reports that some militant groups in Palestine have said that they will start bombings up again.

:-/ Crazy times.

#193

Israel is what, about the size of NJ, right? Why don’t we suggest selling NJ to them, we’ll all move out to other states, the Palestinians can have the land over there, and the Israelis will have some of the most primo land in the world, right next to the only country that is friendly toward them.

And then we’ll pull all our people from all the Arab nations in the Middle East, have only solar powered vehicles, and live happily ever after.

#194

And monkey’s might fly out of my butt.

:slight_smile:

It is a nice thought though.

#195

Hey, it happened in Bruce Almighty. :wink:

btw, didn’t Steve Carrell scenes in that movie just instantly make him a viable Hollywood product? That nightly news bit where Bruce messes up his speech cracks me up every time.

#196

^lol

#197

That scene nearly made me pee my pants the first time I saw it. Hilarious!

#198

Look at what our shit of a commander said today:

Iraq Pullout Would Lead To Bloodbath, Bush Warns >:( WTF?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/19/AR2007041902719.html?hpid=topnews

Your kidding me right?
What the hell is happening right now, a tea party?

And now we get Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, saying that

#199

Yeah, cuz I always take what politicians say seriously.

(Rolls eyes)

#200

how the powers that be sleep at night is something i will never comprehend.