I just learned that our troops are building a 12ft high concrete wall, 3 miles long thru the heart of Baghdad to separate the factions and try to reduce violence. Seems this isn’t the first wall built for these purposes in the world.
I imagine such a thing may incite the insurgents to go nuts and blow holes thru it, thats pretty much expected, but maybe it will help.
“Freedom’s on the march”
“I believe that freedom is the deepest need of every human soul.”
or the best one,
“The desire for freedom resides in every human heart. And that desire cannot be contained forever by prison walls, or martial laws, or secret police. Over time, and across the Earth, freedom will find a way.”
All by George W. Bush.
Listen, I understand they are trying to get the militias from both sects not to go into each others neighborhoods, and that is the entire goal of ending the insurgency, but you are now setting up a symbol of slavery, a wall, inside of a place you are trying to make free democracy. It is a little hypocritical.
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/opinion/22rich.html?hp
Read Frank Rich’s column today, and it will be hard to ever support this White House again.
OK, so we all know by now that Bush vetoed or KO’d the Democratic bill that initiates a troop pull out by next spring.
We all realize by now that Bush doesn’t care about popular opinion and will continue to do what he feels is right. And once again, I stand behind him in this fight.
First of all, think on this people… just because the “majority” feels the war is wrong does not mean the majority is right. Logical arguments are not won because “most people feel that way”. In fact just going along with the herd is not using ones intelligence. One should think and think again and come to the best conclusion they can come to, on their own.
Second, what if we went in there and everything fell into place within a year or two. People would be praising Bush right now instead of thinking he’s the devil. This illustrates the hypocrytical thinking of people. The fact is things have gotten tough over there and it will take some true grit to win this war and bring some peace to that area as well as defeat the threat of the terrorists. But soon as the going gets tough the Americans want to pull out… and I ask you to what end? What will pulling out do? It will embolden Al Queida thats for sure.
See the terrorists know the Americans are wimps, that they can’t “take the blood” to quote Saddam. That all they have to do is keep up these attacks and we will give in, give up and the terrorist will have gained an advantage… and then we will see more blood on OUR soil before you know it.
Also the Democrats are a bunch of tricky weasels. They are pulling all kinds of punches so they can win the next election. The words and ideas they pose are for short-term political gain. They are more interested in crushing the Republicans than they are with defeating the terrorists and making America and the world a safer place. It’s pathetic.
Basically we have to keep fighting till this war is won and stability and peace are brought to the region. That will be the best for the long term and save more lives over the long term as well.
Sorry for the double post…
Think about our culture. We want what we want when we want it. If we don’t get what we want we throw a fit and a tantrum. You can see it all the time right down to people not hearing their favorite song at a phish show or the “show sucked” and people throw a fit.
Another charateristic of our culture is when things get tough and obstacles arise in any situation we throw another fit and run for the nearest exit. We just can’t deal. Look at our divorce rate. That is a good indicator. Things aren’t going well at your job? Throw a fit and quit. Didn’t like the movie you just saw? Throw a fit and get your money back. Your pasta was undercooked? Throw a fit and ask for a free meal. It goes on and on. This culture is like a bunch of children. Its true! So then here we go… we have a demon bent on hurting our fragile utopian society and we don’t have the balls to fight the fight. We want to run and ignore the problem. Or maybe hand them a bouquet of flowers and ask then kindlt if they will stop flying planes into our buildings.
Right. This problem is not going to go away. I just hope Bush has enough time to make a difference before the Dems and American public blow it.
I hear ya. Still fighting the good fight in this thread, eh? I haven’t thought about the situation too much since I last posted in here. I don’t mean to be your typical lazy American, ignorant of the world outside my own experience. But I guess I am.
Lately, when I want to worry about the future, I turn to looming problems like population overgrowth, food and water shortages, pandemics and the like.
Part of me feels like, why worry myself over these types of things? War? Death? The future? Today is the day when things are still fine in my life. They might not always be fine. Scratch that, they definitely won’t be, someday.
You make great points about the majority. What we really need is an EDUCATED majority. Anyone know where we can get one of them?
Don’t like what the American people want, throw a fit and lie to them right?
Tell them to be scared, to not trust all those brown people, that they have big bombs and that they want to take everything away from us.
Go to sleep America, that’s what our leaders want.
And apparently goldphish as well.
Goldfish, the military presence in Iraq helped to motivate Terrorists. Not one Iraqi was behind the 9/11 attacks. Saudis were. Why are we not in Saudi Arabi? Why have we seen General after General “retire” over the last four years? Where is Colin Powell? Why do you think he got the fuck out of this situation as soon as he could?
Have you heard any interviews with George Tenet? He has stated on more than one occasion that Bush had a hard on for Iraq(paraphrasing of course) since the day he got elected to his first term.
Why are the Bin Ladens still living throughout the Northeast United States?
This whole situation is fucking Cockeyed. And now there’s a wall. Yeah great idea. Great way to get Liberty started. Even Bush’s father knew it was the right idea to get Saddam out of Kuwait and stay the fuck out of Iraq. And he had the support of the entire world at the time. But what they didnt have 15 years ago is the same thing Bush Jr. doesnt have now.A solid exit strategy.
^Gamecat, how can you say that? Do you like to turn a blind eye to the fact that there actually are radical terrorists that truly want to take away people freedoms? That have already killed people in the name of their radical cause? That these radical muslims wish to over run the world thru viloent means? That they will stop at nothing to further their cause? That they hate people like you and me because we are not muslim? Can you comprehend that kind of hatred?
Bush and Co. are not making this up.
If it is the motive of our leaders to put us “to sleep”, what is the cause? What are their goals? To take over the world??? No. To rid the world of terrorists. To save lives.
People in America don’t want to face the fact that life is not all happy and cheers and fun. That life is not good. That life is as full of suffering as much as its full of pleasure. Americans are so attached to pleasure, to getting high, that anything that comes in and shakes up their peaceful little world is ignored, is denied. Then the hawk swoops in and swiftly kills the rabbit. Atleast some rabbits are aware of the hawk and willing to do something about it.
Yes, sometimes conflict is necessary. We went into Afghanistan because we KNEW Al Qaida did it. The Taliban were housing them in Afghanistan, so when they didnt give up Bin Laden and his Lt.'s we went in there exactly as we should have. And left before the job was done, with the country a mess, and the Taliban still a threat(that has increased more and more since we turned our attention to Iraq).
In the meantime we’ve lost a lot of American soldiers, have caused the deaths of way too many Iraqis who were no more than innocent Bystanders, and spent a fortune doing it. Hatred for America has now grown in the Middle East 100fold and we don’t have an ally in the World right now.
Worst.President.Ever.
This is just crazy. There really is nothing about this war that is right. There are so many things that simply do not make sense. It’s all mind boggling.
In Iraq, a head wound isn’t always a trip home
Military personnel with brain injuries pressured to return quickly to duty
Robert Bazell
Chief science and health correspondent
When I arrived in Iraq recently I had a question for the leaders of the medical staff.
Last year when I was reporting on the treatment of brain injuries among troops returning from the war, I learned many experts were concerned about low-level brain injuries among the troops. The rehabilitation experts at Veterans Affairs had been shocked to hear that soldiers and Marines who had been exposed to the concussive force of numerous blasts from roadside bombs, but not obviously injured, were routinely returned to duty.
The VA experts worried that this could lead to an epidemic of mental health issues among veterans in the years to come. I asked at the Pentagon if anyone was concerned about the issue and got no answer.
In Iraq, I found that what the VA experts were hearing is certainly true. Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) remain the signature weapon of this war. These bombs have gotten increasingly powerful.
In the military hospitals in Iraq, most of the U.S. wounded had been injured by IEDs. Most surprising to me, it was not the first IED for most of them. In fact, I met several who had survived as many as five IED blasts. One young soldier had been through five in the past six weeks alone.
The explosions often fracture limbs severely. Even with the best body armor the concussive force can smash internal organs. Troops with obvious injuries receive immediate treatment and a fast trip home for rehabilitation.
What if the soldier just passes out for a few minutes or an hour? That often happens when the brain is shaken against the skull, and stops working temporarily.
Detecting ‘subtle’ damage
Right now, the procedure calls for the soldier to be checked out for a day at most and returned to duty.
Well, thank god for that. Those people almost had the rest of their lives to look foward to.
^Not really. What I’m saying is the terrorist is ready to kill and die to reach Allah. Kill non-muslim or anyone that doesn’t believe in their way. From that perspective they are like predators. The “prey” are all of us. Our mindset is completely different. We just want our happy little lives. Why would anyone want to hurt us? We mind our own business and harm no one. But we are hated by these radicals for simply being who we are… or not are.
So its not a matter of being defenseless and at their mercy as much as that we need to recognize the danger. The analogy illustrates the danger and the rabbits ignorance of that danger. If the rabbits recognized that then maybe they’d mobilize a defense… so to speak… hence the war.
Just to make ya’ll feel a little better, the idea of doing things even if it’s totally against public opinion is not just happening here.
Unlike in America, where many people were fooled by The Great Lie and actual gave support to the war, almost NO ONE in Great Britain liked the war right from the start. And yet Tony Blair got parliament to lend their aid as well. I know a guy who lives there whose brother was killed in Afghanistan and MAN was he pissed, especially since his brother died while fighting for OUR country when his wasn’t even attacked. Try explaining THAT one to Mama.
Either way, The Great Lie continues. My favorite is how they say that it would “dishonor the men who already died” if we pulled out now. So we’re going to honor the dead by sending even more youth to their deaths…perhaps Dubya just wants the folks who are already dead to have more company in heaven…what a nice gesture. Even better is how they don’t even give press releases about the deaths anymore…yet George Stephanopolous shows at least 20 names EVERY WEEK of people who died in Iraq and Afghanistan…and those are the names that were actually released.
And while it’s nice that all of these former secretaries and generals are coming out and trying to expose Dubya and the administration by saying that “the administration wanted this war even before 9/11” and “I knew this war would never work” yet AT THE TIME, where the hell were these people? Oh yeah…I know…they were too busy kissing Dubya’s ass and refused to say anything so as to improve their own position in the administration. Yeah, it’s real gutsy to say all this stuff because it will sell books and make them tons of cash, but none of these jokers had the balls to say it when it was actually happening. These guys can kiss my ass as well…even now I’m convinced they’re only doing this to make money with book sales. People are already buzzing over Colin Powell’s uncoming book where he exposes some of the lies and it’s going to get big pub when it’s out, but where the hell was he when this was going on…oh yeah…he was sitting in front of the UN, showing us satellite images of a trailor park and claiming they were Iraqi nuclear facilities. Why didn’t you speak up Colin? Why didn’t ANYONE speak up? Not that I’m saying that it would have stopped the war but if all these guys are taking this moral high ground now, why didn’t they do it then? Oh yeah. Money and power.
Pathetic.
And people wonder why I don’t vote,
Stevo
even the republicans in congress and the senate are turning on him
he needs to go. Seriously.
While I understand anyone’s frustration regarding this mess, there’s a couple of things I respectfully disagree with. Military men do not “kiss ass”, they take orders. While this mind set is admittedly foreign to me, 'cos I’m not a soldier, I understand that a Four Star General can not speak out against the commander in chief. They do when they become a private citizen, but while under rank and file, there is only one directive. Obey your superior officer.
I don’t like ANY war. I hope someday that we can all live in peace, free of stryfe and conflict and reach a new apex of civilization. I don’t want any soldiers to die. But Afghanistan to me was necessary. And every Country involved should have been. For all the bullying, intimidating and no matter how self absorbed our Government, and people can be, we have also brought a lot of Goodwill to the World over the last two centuries. We were attacked, and the UN security council new the right thing to do was to get involved with Afghanistan. Soldiers who lost their lives in that situation should definitely be mourned. But at least they lost their lives fighting a right and just cause.
Unfortunately Soldiers are losing their lives in Afghanistan now, because its not the priority that IRAQ is, which is wrong.
And finally. DUDE! YOU HAVE TO START VOTING!
This is why GW got re-elected. Because young people throw there hands up and don’t participate. So nominees don’t even bother worrying about what they think. They cater to people 60+ who go out and vote religiously.
Please make sure you register and go out and Vote in 08.
You’re right. But I guess I was referring to more than just generals. Colin Powell was acting as a Cabinet member, not a general. And I think a couple of these books are from members of their staff, not the military. But you’re right…I guess I can’t blame the generals but there’s the other members of that staff that are writing books that do apply. I stand…err…sit corrected.
I’m with you. Afghanistan was very necessary. Osama was there, the taliban wouldn’t let us in so we kicked their asses to get access. Great job. Rah, Rah. But…well…Osama’s not there anymore. He’s in Pakistan now. Why aren’t we going there instead of Iraq? It’s like the dude don’t even exist anymore…I haven’t heard Dubya mention him in years. All those dead in Afghanistan were for nothing.
Oh…so last election I could have voted for Dubya who supported the war or for Kerry who…uh…ALSO supported the war? Yeah, great choice. And don’t even mention third parties…it’s a pipe dream with them. As long as the Dems and Reps rule Congress, they don’t have a chance.
And yeah…I’m registered…there might be a local Proposal that I’ll want to vote for then be appalled when nothing happens despite it getting passed. Good times.
Sorry…I’m VERY cynical about government. Can’t help it. Years of lies and corruption from both sides of the political spectrum tend to weigh on you.
Stevo
^I think the idea was to try to bring some stability to the region. Which will take time.
Oh yeah…now I remember what this is all about…the U.S. goal…
The U.S. and Iraqi governments are under pressure to show progress in Iraq by raising oil production, which has been well below the U.S. goal of 3 million barrels a day. Virtually the entire economy of oil-rich Iraq is dependent on oil revenues.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/natio…ck=1 &cset=true
Governors say war has gutted Guard
States fear lack of disaster response
“This isn’t just a week when a little town in Kansas was torn apart,” said the military analyst. “It is also a week when there were wildfires across Georgia and Florida, a week when the Missouri River flooded. We have natural disasters every week in this country, and that’s why the National Guard needs to be ready to respond every week. It’s not.”
The war is diverting so much from our own nation. There are so many things that need attention here. When I step back and look at this whole situation, there isn’t one part of it that makes sense to me. I know there are a lot of people that it does make sense to. That’s just how it is.
Perhaps the main factor that contributes to my view is that I don’t believe the official story of 9/11. I don’t know exactly how it happened or who was invovled, but from top to bottom it truly is some shady shit.
I also have trouble with the idea of natural disasters. It’s all very natural, but it’s only a disaster to us. That tornado leveling that entire Kansas town was indeed random and horrible for the people who experienced it, but that tornado would have been there long before that town and it will blow through long after that town is gone. That’s the way it goes here on planet Earth. When you’re born, you hit the ground running. You’re already dying. If the thunder don’t get you, then the lightning will. Etc, etc, etc. This is a dangerous place. So these natural things happen all the time…with or without us. We can certainly make it harder for ourselves; Build below sea level. Build next to rivers. Build in forests that often burn. All of that is fine, but you can’t be shocked and appalled and devastated when it all goes natural like it JUST does. Fighting against it is not the answer. Damming the flow only works for a short time.
So when things do go bad for people (whether you regard it as a disaster or not,) it’s nice to have some help. National Guard or whoever else. The basic idea of this country is perfect (to me.) You have the freedoms to do pretty much whatever you want. You can work and earn money and have your own house and you can get in your car and drive all the way from ocean to ocean, if you want to. Everyone pays taxes that go in a big pool for everyone. Your garbage is picked up. If your house starts on fire, someone will come and put it out. So many things to try to help life flow smoothly. But that’s all just the idea of this country. It’s all twisted and fucked in so many ways. A lot of the basics are there, but much of it is perverted into something else. Modern life here in the “western world” is tainted by the urban sickness…or, more accurately, the commercial sickness. The WANT is encouraged for everyone at all times. Life is portrayed as a party. The idea that anything could ever be hard is regarded as wrong. I feel that we, as a species, are rolling the boulder of our existence up to a peak. We are almost to the top. When that boulder goes over, there is no stopping it.
Anyway…this war (ALL WAR) is a load of shit. I don’t think that the National Guard (or any of the other military people) are guarding our nation by killing people in Iraq.
Wow.
28-4 in favor of we shouldn’t keep fighting.
Let’s bring 'em all back at once.
What an awkward moment that would be.