The war and Bush

haha thats okay, I can’t say that I don’t deserve some backlash for all my pointy hats and pipilongstockings ??? I probably should stop trying to debate but occasionally I learn something… and occasionally make an ass of myself.

Point taken on the “dueling diatribes” but there has been some good conversation in the mix. Sometimes there really isn’t much to say about it that hasn’t already been said so it can become repetitious.

At this point, supposedly, we all have to wait till September to make a judgement about this surge thing. I can see it now… probably more of the same nonsense.

Interesting viewpoint jawbone, however many of the soldiers fighting over there want to be there and believe in what they are doing. So they really aren’t so much as pawns, as you say. There has been no draft. These people voluntarily joined the armed forces. Still, point taken on how messy things are.

“Congress reluctantly approves billions for war. Democrats, conceding to Bush, don’t insist on troop withdrawal timetable. The legislation includes nearly $95 billion to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through Sept. 30.”

We saw this coming. It will be interesting to see where this goes come the fall. Sure to be more and more pressure placed on Bush and the Iraqi gov’t for results.

I think many people agree if we pull out now it would be a bloodbath. Seems the way things are right now there cannot be a talk of withdrawal. It could be a different story a year from now… or 5. I can’t see the next president getting in office without a troop withdrawal plan.

Those WMD’s… it is possible, tho this is pure speculation, that they were able to move those weapons across the border before we got there. If you had a big bag of dope in your car and the police called you and said they were coming to inspect your car wwyd? Seriously is that that crazy of an idea?!?

Can lump this war in with religion and politics as yet another thing you can’t argue about because no one wins?

The biggest problem? No one knows what to believe. For one, obviously no one believes a word that comes from Washington since they lie about everything. Then no one believes a word of what comes out of a Iraq since it may be Washington’s propaganda. Then when we hear stories about how REALLY bad it is in Iraq, people assume that it’s Democratic propaganda used to discredit the President and the Republicans. Then when people want to say that Dubya and his folks lied to start the war, the Reps argue that it was bad information and that Dubya’s just an innocent in all of this. Then whenever it’s proven that there truly WAS a lie like the Pat Tillman thing, the Reps are quick to assume that Washington had nothing to do with it and blames the army.

The problem with this war is people only believe facts and news stories that convienently agree with their political position or opinions. Any other news stories that goes against what we think is obviously some sort of propaganda. Not only can we not debate on this, but we can’t even agree with what “facts” are true or not. That’s like debating whether Saturn or Neptune is the cooler-looking planet and having someone in the argument say that those planets don’t actually exist and that those images of the planets were made on a computer or something…you can’t debate which one looks cooler if you can’t even agree that they exist.

Here’s the point. Everyone lies and everyone has an agenda. All I know is that while we sit and yammer on, kids are dying by the 10s and 20s every week…despite the fact that they’re NOT actively fighting a war and are basically be stationed in one spot where they’re basically waiting to die. No matter who’s right or who’s wrong, that just doesn’t seem right to me.

And in the end, isn’t it all Bill Clinton’s fault? I just assumed that everything was. ;D

Stevo

Let me get this straight Goldphish, Your saying that moving Biological & Nuclear weapons out of a country and hiding them in said country is like moving an ounce of weed out of your car?

yeah, it’s that easy. ::slight_smile:

I’m having serious thought about your sanity.
You seriously got to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh.
Your lost.

Never was, never have been WMD’s there.

In other News:

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) – Military aid began arriving Friday after the United States said it will rush supplies to the Lebanese army fighting al Qaeda-inspired Islamic militants barricaded inside a Palestinian refugee camp in the country’s north.

That’s great idea, send more weapons to an already unstable government in the middle east. Sure, they will use them for good reasons.

[i]BAGHDAD – The U.S. military announced the deaths of six U.S. soldiers in separate roadside bombing and shooting attacks across Iraq.
That puts the month on pace to be one of the deadliest for U.S. forces here. Last month, 104 U.S. troops were killed in Iraq. Adding to the anxiety is the rising American death toll.

The deaths brought the number of U.S. personnel killed in Iraq since the start of the war in 2003 to 3,441, according to the website icasualties.org, which tracks military casualties.

At least 90 U.S. troops have died so far this month, putting May on track to being one of the deadliest months for the U.S. military in Iraq. Last month, 104 soldiers were killed in Iraq, only the sixth time that more than 100 troops were killed in a single month.[/i]

And let’s not forget about the 3 soldiers that were kidnapped, the body of one of the men was found Wednesday in the Euphrates River with signs of torture.

The other 2 are still uncounted for and most likely dead.

Q4T

^Hi Gamecat, I’ve been wondering where you’ve been lately.

So, no, I’m not saying it would be easy to move WMD’s just that it might be possible that, knowing we were coming to look for them, they did manage to move the weapons (or dismantle) before we got there. I will not put too much stock in that argument because it is speculation and not fact… however possible.

Gamecat: "Never was, never have been WMD’s there. "

You can’t say there have never been WMD’s there… Saddam used them against Iran, chemical weapons, those are WMD’s. He used them against the Kurds as well.

Wikipedia:
Weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a term used to describe a massive weapon with the capacity to indiscriminately kill or incapacitate. The phrase broadly encompasses several areas of weapon synthesis, including nuclear, biological, chemical (NBC) and, increasingly, radiological weapons.

Here’s a link to an article concerning Saddams chemical weapon use:
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/12/e448bece-def1-4c16-9051-75fa9552a4c8.html

"PRAGUE, December 1, 2006 (RFE/RL) – The head of a center for Iran’s disabled war veterans announced on November 26 that Iraq’s former Ba’athist regime used chemical weapons against civilians and soldiers some 300 times in the 1980s.

They are described by many as forgotten victims of Saddam Hussein. In many cases, they are soldiers who fought in the bloody Iran-Iraq war in 1980-88. But many others were noncombatants.

Iranian authorities have registered more than 50,000 victims of chemical weapons requiring special medical care. But it is thought that about 1 million Iranians were exposed to mustard or nerve gas during the war."

You take that quote back sir! I don’t listen to Limbaugh! And I’m not (completely) lost!

With such a history and how jumpy the US was at the time it wasn’t much a shock we invaded… even if the info was either a mistake or falsified. People will believe a lie if they are afraid its true. That may have been the case. In my estimation the US was afraid of what Iraq may do to further the terrorists cause.

I’m sorry, I take it back.

I crossed the line with the Limbaugh comment.
I guess I just wanted to see if you did.
And your not as lost as I am, so yeah, I guess I should look in the mirror huh?

Hug it out? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve just never been to happy about fighting of any kind.
And I think we as humans need to come up with a new way of dealing with problems other then killing each other.
Or we all will be lost, for good. Know what I mean?

And depending on how many soldiers die in the next 2 days, this will be the most deadly month EVER of this god forsaken war.

113 this May. 3rd worst since the start.
Horrible.

As for the WMD statement, I ain’t apologizing for that.
I stand by that comment.

I understand that Saddam used chemicals against Iran & the Kurds, but that is NOT what our administration implied at the U.N. or in the Media.
They constantly used words like “Mushroom Cloud” and “Rain of Fire” Am I right?

Chemical weapons haven’t even been found as far as I know, so though he used them, we couldn’t find anything other then some mustard gas and insecticides which are not illegal, though harmful.
Correct me if I’m wrong please.

^I hope not.

No problem Gamecat. I can’t argue that Bush was not insinuating nuclear weapons and the fear of them to further the reason for war. At the time of invasion I thought the whole thing to be done in haste.

US military: 14 troops killed in 2 days

:-/

Why is America so worried about other countries having nukes anyway? WE are the only country in the history of the world to ever use them. Shouldn’t WE be the ones who have to get rid of nukes? I’d figure that Dubya’s about as dangerous as any world leader out there…

Just thinking…

“And make no mistake – strike again they will”

statements like these make me very suspicious about a lot of things. it’s like that “installation of fear into the general public” tactic that has been used over the last several years by our own gov’t. sure, there’s danger out there. there always has been and always will be. in my opinion, it probably wouldn’t be that difficult for someone to blow up a car anywhere on earth if they really wanted to. pardon my tone, but isn’t it a bit strange (or convenient) that authorities just so happened to foil what was apparently the only two potential attacks in london? how lucky! let the paranoia begin!

i don’t know. after i’ve seen how we can all be so easily persuaded and fooled into a state of constant high alert, i can’t help but question everything i see regarding all this terror. sometimes it’s hard to tell up from down these days.

oh, that’s easy.

the derranged radical terrorist groups and the corrupt capitalist pigs who profit from them are up.

the rest of the world is down.

huh. y’know, that WAS easy. hey thanks Jaw!

6 of the 8 arrested were either trainees or full doctors.

?

Emperor Bush would not allow such things. And it is good.

commies.

As if there weren’t enough reasons to believe he’s the worst President ever…

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19717961/site/newsweek/site/newsweek/

I thought the purpose of the war on terror was to fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here… What a dickhole.

what a fucking lose/lose mess. completely unbelievable.

who is this “Bush” character? in charge of something important i gather…