yeah its kinda pointless. you can point to it but its kinda like bitching about big oil… you wouldn’t get to any of the concerts (and neither would the band) to see your favorite band without them.
I vote for tribal drumming. 
MT mostly
My point is, if Phish was only from 2009 on, or even 2003 on… they would not be my favorite band of all timez.
That is really confusing logic Will. I mean, in 2003 they had still written every song they wrote up until 2003. I mean it’s not like you or I were listening to Phish in 1989 or whatever…If the first show Phish ever played was Deer Creek 2009, and that was the first time all those songs were played, they wouldn’t be your favorite band?
I’m not saying Deer Creek was the best show of '09, but it was just another great Phish show…and I don’t see why you, or anyone would have enjoyed it any less if it was their first show.
What if Phish was a brand new band and they just released Junta as their first album in May 2010? Would they be your favorite band of all time? Would you follow them around the country?
BTW…I’m stuck here at work on a Saturday, and I’m not trying to argue with you or anything. I’m just bored.
?
^MT = Montana
oh wait… nevermind 
It’s totally pointless.
P.S. - I totally love tribal drumming.
The discussion has existed for as long as I have been delving into the group. I personally think that Hoist is an amazing record.
I hated and resented Billy Breathes when it came out. I think my life experiences hadn’t caught up with it’s concepts yet. Now it’s one of my faves. Maybe JOY while I don’t hate it or resent it like I did BB. It Hasn’t really knocked my socks off. I don’t mind. As long as they are obviously trying to keep pushing things, I’m sure I will be around rapt with attention. 
when I first listened to bdtnl i thought “well isn’t this ghey!”… until the singing stopped and playing began… And I like that about phish… you can have these tunes that are very poppy until the band starts to really play… then they can no longer hide behind that pop tune costume they sometimes wear. yeah, were on to you trey. 
and pop is fine by me, cheese is fine too… tho I have not been too interested in trey solo cheese… its those 4 guys I’m talkin about.
Like… if the only material Phish had was Joy… maaaan.
i agree right there. always felt the same way about wolfmans. never liked the lyrical part of the song, but i always love the jam.
Well, I think it’s time I stop going on about this … but I did wanna say that I don’t mean “selling out”. I thought we were just in disagreement over what constitutes a good song.
The whole jam thing to me is separate; they can take any song & tag on some great improv. They’re Phish.
But it’s about the songs themselves, and for me I guess I evaluate songs based on a sort of craftsmanship criteria. It can be cheese pop, samba, rock, jazz, shit, fuck, punk, sklaggz, you name it. I don’t care. But a sucky tune is just kinda sucky if it sucks, regardless of its genre or lyrical depth … know what I mean?
For example: I’ve always loved “Fast Enough For You” - yet I remember folks bitching about that song being a sellout. Hell, I remember waiting in line at the Campus Club and some dude in line was all, “I hope they don’t do any of that country shit they did in NH.” Folks are gonna have their taste differences, so there’s that. But “Fast Enough” is a finely crafted tune, and a sweet polished production. The commercial applications are pretty irrelevant to me, I don’t know why people go on about selling out.
But it’s always been the case that Band Makes It Big > Skeptics Dissect New Stuff Under Loud Microscope. That reality must do a number on the artist, I think.
It’s just down to this for me. For every Phish album that’s come since Rift, there’s a song or two that to me just seem aimlessly or carelessly developed (some albums more than that!), almost as a rebellion against their former selves.
I know it’s just reality that music artists have heydays, so no use going in circles over it. But at one point Phish was like the fucking Beatles; every tune a winner. The songwriting from '86 to '92 is just terrifyingly good.
All I know is Kev Silvias best stuff was so Summer 07. 
^haha will 
Hey Kevin I can’t say that i don’t agree with you… actually i do… however I think you a more critical and knowledgeable fan than I… sensitive when it comes to the construction and craftsmanship of song writing… being a musician/songwriter must be a blessing and a curse. Even so I think we can generally agree that songs like spread it round and 2 versions of me suck prodigeous donkey balls… and if trey did ever collaborate with the jonas brothers we’d have to find a way to get front and center and fire spit balls at his forehead.
*Prodigious… excuse me I cnt splel… I need to be more punctilious with my spelling.
No.
I srsly think Trey needs to write a book of poems.
Hahaha, see Kevin, you can’t go on “worrying and bashing” and having opinions and stuff!! That’s just silly. And pointless, of course.
Seriously, folks. A couple of less-than-favorable opinions about a couple songs and suddenly you’re accusing us of “bashing” and telling us Phish isn’t selling out?? Frankie says “relax.”