Yeah,…all his new stuff sounds like O.A.R. 
^^ 
Says the person who has gotten defensive on numerous occassions.
I guess when it’s something you agree with you can have your opinion, but if someone disagrees with your opinion on say the NHL then you don’t want any part of that huh?
KDF Opener every show 
^ 
Don’t forget Joy>Let me Lie Encore in a town near you… 
objective
subjective
You know the rest…Right?
I’ve seen you post that three or four times in this thread and I still don’t see your point.
Or understand your post at all.
The point is there are people in this thread trying to speak subjectively about an objective topic…Then again, there are also people trying to speak objectively about what may also be a subjective topic to some. The songwriting. It is an equation for talking in circles.
P.S. - I’d write a million “Ocelots” if it meant cash in my pocket.
Your duplicate posts seem a lot more like talking in circles to me.
FWIW, I love Ocelot. It sounds like one of the more inspired & unique tunes they’ve done in years.
And also, I might be a fan if Joy was their only album. My greater point is that there was a time when the actual song craftsmanship was WAY up there with the best of the best ever, In My Subjective/Objective Opinion. But for almost 20 years they’ve been writing just regular awesome. With the occasional song I think is lousy.
:shrugs:
I think he’s saying that people state their opinions as if they are factual when it really comes down a person’s perspective. Music that might sound dull and lackluster to one person may totally amaze and inspire another.
With Phish, it obviously comes down to relativity. Many people seem to find Phish’s playing now to be less inspiring because they have reference points of what the band did at different points in their career.
I don’t think it’s wrong to make comparisons, but I think some people prevent themselves from really enjoying what’s happening because they are constantly putting it up against something else. That’s why people who don’t have expectations end up enjoying shows the most.
For example, a jam from '09 would much more impress someone who has never heard Phish than someone who listens to '93-'96 Phish, because they have nothing to compare it to.
I’m getting sorta off-topic though, because Kevin is just talking about songwriting, and I certainly don’t think he’s one of those people. I would agree that Phish’s songwriting is not as inspired as it used to be. That being said, I think they have grown in other ways for the better.
Huh? I dunno if you’re directing that at me or not. The NHL? lol, okay…?
You and I have had perfectly reasonable discussions before where we disagreed. I like that. But when ppl don’t / can’t listen to each other, and tend to characterize their “opponents” as having opinions that they never stated, or just accuse them of silly crap b/c they don’t like that opinion… that’s when I get irritated. E.g.:
“I’m not a fan of some of these new tunes Trey’s writing.”
“Dude, stop bashing Phish so much.”
“What? I’m just not real interested in a couple of those songs. I still love the band.”
“Whatever, stop acting like they sold out, people have been saying that since Hoist.”
“But wait… I didn’t…”
“Now you’re just being defensive again. Plus, you hate the NHL.”
scratches head
I guess I just suppose that sometimes people have unreasonable expectations for Trey. Plus the Mike infatuation over Trey drives me nuts. Trey is 10 times the musician that Mike is.
I haven’t read too much of this thread, so I hope I’m on topic here, but I feel as though Phish was almost “too good for their own good,” in a certain sense. I mean, their creative output throughout the late 80s and the 90s was so great that it would be hard to match that same level; even by themselves. Now that we’ve all heard what they are truly capable of, every fan compares the new music to the time they feel the band was playing its absolute best. They were in such a different space in their lives throughout the 90s and it seems like all of their time was devoted to the band and the music; which likely resulted in the great music produced during that time period.
Trey’s a different person now, just like Mike, Page and Fish, and the music certainly reflects that. I like a lot of their new songs, but some of them I do feel are kind of cheesy/poppy, but nonetheless great.
^ Yeah, it’s gotta be tough to live up to your own standards for those guys. Especially for Trey. They were already writing and performing amazing, unique, groundbreaking music in their late teens / early 20s. It’s been 20 years since then. Obviously Trey’s songwriting has changed - he bills it to being more aware of the power of simple compositions, and not being focused so much on writing complex music. I do sometimes wonder if Trey looks back on the ridiculously fast, complex guitar parts he wrote for songs like Bowie or YEM and wishes he wasn’t quite so ambitious with those 22-yr old fingers. 
Blind Trey worship drives me equally nuts 
Just look at Trey’s solo output verses Mike’s and tell me you can say that sentence again with a straight face, lol. I’m listening to Mike and Leo’s 66 Steps as I type this and all I can do is laugh when I think of “Balloon” verses “Sweet Melinda” or “Simple Twist Up Dave” 
^ Which Solo Ouput is closing out major festivals and which one is playing old rundown bars?
^ But… (and it’s a big but 
) which show would I rather go to?
[size=150]Old rundown bar FTW.[/size]
Hm, someone just suggested more money earned = better music. Doesn’t that mean the argument is over and that we have a winner?
Doesn’t more money = more fan appeal?
I think they are both directly correlated no?
Therefore better craftmanship, music, etc.
Um, no.
See: Britny Spears, Jonas Brothers, about a thousand other examples of the low-common-denominator mass appeal thing.