I for one LOVED the orchaestra and the 10 piece TAB. Everything else has been blah.
^^ Hahaha, right! “Oh, so they all go pee during Time Turns Elastic, my latest masterpiece?!? I’ll show those meddling kids!!” And with that, he launches a side-project collaborating with the Jonas Brothers, Lady Gaga, and The Wiggles. 
And Tad, I hope it doesn’t look like everyone’s hating on Trey. I know you idolize him; I do too. I just want to see him live up to his potential - because I know what he can achieve musically, and some of this new material doesn’t even try to reach those heights.
I can’t agree with your “ten times the musician that Mike is” bullshit, but it’s not like I think Trey sucks or has no talent. He’s one of the most interesting composers in rock, one of the best guitarists I’ve ever heard, and a pretty great improviser taboot. Again: I just don’t like some of his lackluster new ballad type songs. They’re just bland and boring. I’m sorry if that offends anyone. shrug
Truth. These guys fit together so perfectly in a musical sense. They just have that “single brain” type jamming style that I have yet to hear from any other musical act.
Not only were each of them born to play music, but they were born to play music together
And that is why thy are the greatest band there has ever been 
As far as everyone hating on Trey…It’s honestly felt that way to me at times. Not with everyone, but I seem to be the lone guy backing Trey here. When I put it into perspective I realize this isn’t the case though.
It doesn’t bother me if you don’t like a new Trey ballad one bit. I get that.
It just seems to me that songs like Light, Ocelot, KDF, Stealing Time are getting dismissed. I think they are sweet new songs.
I suppose I’m surprised by the amount of love Mike gets on this board as well. It probably seems as if I’m not a Mike fan and all that jazz when in fact I very much am. I just can’t put him in the same category with Trey. That’s just me though.
You gotta learn, not everyone has the same opinion…
Personally, I have always backed up Shine and most of Treys work. Bar 17 and whatnot is terrible. GRAB was not nearly as good as GRB (or whatever hetty nickname that band had). So yeah…
Phish as a whole is light years better than any side project.
^ Yeah I hear ya on the differing opinions. It just surprised me that the balance of those opinions seemed to sway in Gordo’s favor as opposed to Trey.
Personally, I think think Gordon right now is writing better songs than Trey. Much like how 2009 is dominating the Ind. Show Discussion, the current event is going to be brought up the most.
^I agree with you. Though to be fair, there are definitely songs written by Trey which I’m not sure Mike could ever touch.
I think most of it can be chalked up to disappointment. We know he is capable of some amazing song writing. So when he churns out Let Me Lie or Love is Freedom, it makes us die a little inside. Plus, it kind of hurts when the guy you think is such a brilliant song writer, turns out to like cheesy music.
I guess we shall see pretty soon the result of Trey’s new songwriting when Tour starts, for all we know Trey could have some Super Insanity Jam Songs up his sleeve… 
Whether any of us think Trey’s new stuff is good or bad, we can all take slight comfort in the fact that Trey is writing music for Phish in 2010 after a kick ass 2009…
omigosh hank your new name is so kewl. 
I like some of the jams that come out of KDF and Light definitely shines (get it?). Stealing Time got huge last year too. So yeah, those are good songs and have the potential to be great songs in the Phish repetoire, IMO. But I don’t think this conversation started as a comprehensive overview of whether ALL of Trey’s new material is superb or not.
If you’re surprised by the love for Mike, maybe you should take listen to him more. 
Maybe we’re talking apples and oranges, though. I don’t think Mike is a “better” musician than Trey. But I do feel that Mike has a better track record when it comes to original, unique, interesting musical output. With Trey it’s hit or miss for me… some of his material is great, some of it is utterly banal crap. But he’s much more prolific, it seems. So maybe that’s just a product of the volume of output. He may be spitting out songs left and right, just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
With Mike, even if a tune doesn’t immediately grab me, it’s still interesting and I’ll likely enjoy it more and more as I hear it more. I wonder if his approach to writing is more methodical; maybe he just spends a lot more time refining his tunes. Some of Trey’s songs can get bland and ordinary, like Kevin said - and really sound like they could have been written by anyone. Mike’s music is never boring to me, it’s always different and it always sounds uniquely his. I think that’s why you see a lot of love for the Cactus.
Anyone think that Page should be talked about a bit more in the writing area? 
Btw, I think it goes without saying that we are all thrilled that they’re all writing music and performing together as Phish. We’re all Phish fans, so I assume we’re all happy about that.
For me, that happiness is not so blinding that I don’t form opinions about WHAT they’re playing, though. Maybe that sounds ungrateful - like I should just lap up whatever they produce because OMG PHISH IS BACK - but to me, part of being a Phish fan is accepting my own honest feelings about their music. It’s okay for them to have some songs I don’t like. They’re a better, more diverse band for it. I’d rather they played such a variety of music that some of it doesn’t appeal to me, than only play songs that I enjoy. That’d get boring quick. (Plus, when would I go pee if it wasn’t for tunes like TTE, Bug, or the first half of Chalkdust??)
After his last album, no. 
This. I love Page’s singing and playing, and he’s a skilled arranger. But writing melodies and lyrics and developing unique musicial concepts aren’t his strong suit, IMO.
I still think Page should put together a totally different kind of band and play big-band jazz standards or something, he has a real affinity for those classic tunes. It’d enable him to have a personal pet project on the side without the pressures of creating as much original music himself.
As one of the bigger critics in this thread, I just want to say “Stealing Time” & “Ocelot” get my votes for Best Phish Tunes In Years.
And I love that TTE is musically ambitious … but in the same way that simple can be great, complex can be crap. Besides, my gripe with that tune is its lyrics.
I haven’t heard Page’s album. Or half of Trey’s solo albums. Or Inside Out. Totally way way more interested than the whole band.
In some ways I think Trey would be better off if he just accepted his musical gifts lie in writing weird proggy stuff, irreverent material and high energy white dude funk. Trey and Marshall’s strengths lie in making weird “word salads”. I’m sure they fancy themselves as Neil Youngs/Lou Reeds but it’s just not quite them. They have their ups and downs and I’m not saying the newer stuff is bad, though.
I wish they would sort of revisit an approach to writing that yielded stuff like “Theme From the Bottom” and “Free” that seem to strike a balance between musical complexity and simplicity as well as meaningful lyrics. I’d also like to see some more “Tube” styled jams. So if anyone talks to Trey just let him know that and I’m sure he’ll get right on it.
I kinda feel that the out pouring of love for Mike’s songwriting is a bit of a backlash to some of the crap trey writes. I mean I like mike songs and they are weird and phishy but his tunes… aside from Mike’s song, aren’t jam vehicles… do you really want a 25 minute Round Room?.. how 'bout a 30 minute Weigh? It’s just a different writing style and if the majority of songs were written by him phish would be a completely different band imo. I dig his tunes and they are refreshing but even the crappiest of trey songs can eventually rock your balls off.